Silgrad Tower from the Ashes

Quote:Legio Argonis lore
[...]
The Empire knew very little about the situation and wanted more information before taking any action. They sent out an expedition to meet with the Argonian tribe. Much to their surprise, the Argonians didn't turn out to be anything like the ferocious animals the Dunmer had made them out to be, in fact they were rather civilized. During the decades in the Bitter Coast the Argonians had developed a crude alphabet, a system of law, and sharing of food. The developments were attributed to their unusually intelligent leader, a female named Ha'Zhorra.
[...]

hmm.... can I develope a "crude alphabet"? I'd say mix it with heiroglyphs and pictographs as well as Daedric and Imperial influenced lettering huh.... so like a mix of pictographic, Daedric, and Cyrodiilic... what do you think of this idea guys?*

perhaps their law can be written on a large banner in the Legio Argonis fort and it can be in the Bitter Coast Argonian script? also, what of Argonians on the other side of the Bitter Coast started using it... you know, the ones on Vvardenfell Bitter Coast? that would add a lot of unifying ideas to our mods (silgrad and Vvar) and make it seem much closer... make it seem like one world....

also Ha'Zhorra was said to be extremely intelligent... and since the Argonian women tend to be smarter than the Argonian men.... perhaps she is smarter than even the normal female? perhaps she is a... prodigy!
or as ingorant / jealous folks would say... a FREAK! :lmao:



* I dunno how to make it a font but I know I can draw! :goodjob:

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EDIT:
I am thinking that the Argonian language would be composed of grunts, guttural sounds, hisses, and throaty talking.... so maybe even making Argonian phrases, which is beyond the scope of this writing, but hey, its cool... so the sounds of each letter/character would reflect their linguistic ability

:goodjob: Well someone has to do it - are you sure you will have time to do a good job? Something like this has to feel right... You need to have something to base it on... Maybe there is a 'primitive' but little-used alphabet in some far corner of the world that you could use?

Potential Candidates for Writing from the Real-world

[TITLE]RongoRongo[/title]
well there is the RongoRongo writing of the Easter Island, the kingdom of Easter Island inhabited by Oceana folks died out already and people are still trying in vain to decipher the language
....as the culture is centered around the sea and sea birds and fish and such, their writing reflects that alot having sea birds and fish in their symbols
[title]Cherokee[/title]
There is the cherokee alphabet, like english except changed and letters meaning different sounds..... if we use something similar that would mean the Argonians borrowed from the Cyrodiilics, however, they are said to have had NO CONTACT with the outside world so they couldn't have easily gotten hold o the letters and learned how they worked
[title]Viet- Quoc Ngu[/title]
There is the Vietnamese writing that I think could work.... Quoc ngu, however it is Vietnamese rendered into Latin style letters.... but then again, where would the Argonians get Cyrodiilic letters to turn it into their own?
[title]Mayan[/title]
Mayan writing is pretty cool and looks good for this.... but we need to keep it as simple a spossible... since the Argonians aren't making calenders or letters or anything, just a crude set of laws that all of them could read....
[title]Chinese[/title]
hehehe, funny, I can read some of these.... oh yeah, cause its a sample of modern Chinese writing.... but this is too formalized and civilized and widespread to be effectivly used for our case....
this here is a far more ancient type of chinese writing
[title]Thai[/title]
thai looks like a possible alphabet to base it all on, but of course it will be easily recognized so we gonna need to change it a lot if we use it.... my uncle says Thai is one of the hardest languages to learn and write if you are a foreigner....
[title]Uighur/Mongol[/title]
I personally also like the Uighur-Mongolian script, it looks pretty good an seems asiatic yet not like the kind we are familiar with...

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well, that's all for now.... you guys give some feedback alright??
....I have no problem making it from scratch...
but there are a few things to consider....

• What is it written on?
  it has to be local natural materials since the Argonians couldn't get papyrus from corkbulb nor paper easily.... bark and hides would be the most likely.... or stone
  
• What did they write with?
  did they carve, use ink, scratch, or whatever the letters into the medium they were using?
  
• how does their culture show in their writing?
  if they are a very orderly culture, their writing will be very organized, if a colorful culture it will be very stylized and mabye with pictures too, etc. we need to consider it all
  

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And also.... three questions....

1. Will this be used in the mod for the Argonians of Legio Argonis if completed?
   
   
2. Should it be completed, could it be official Silgrad lore from that point on?
   
   
3. I am free to use it on Vvardenfell right?
   I intend to use it for the Argonians on the Vvar. side of the Bitter Coast.
   

If you are going primitive then Rongo Rongo or Maian look to be the best bets, with Rongo Rongo lookin a bit more predatory and right to me.

the Mongolian looks way to sophisticated for a 'trunk' culture, as do others.

Actually I think the Maian is very funny, like smilies, but less suitable.

You do not have to keep strictly to the letters there, you might simplify them, etc, but the lines and angles look doable generally.

Quote:well, that's all for now.... you guys give some feedback alright??
....I have no problem making it from scratch...
but there are a few things to consider....

What is it written on?
it has to be local natural materials since the Argonians couldn't get papyrus from corkbulb nor paper easily.... bark and hides would be the most likely.... or stone

What did they write with?
did they carve, use ink, scratch, or whatever the letters into the medium they were using?

how does their culture show in their writing?
if they are a very orderly culture, their writing will be very organized, if a colorful culture it will be very stylized and maybe with pictures too, etc. we need to consider it all

Just looking at Argonians is a visual treat, so they are already colourful, but what is their culture? Well they built it up from zero in the most trying circumstances. If theyhad more time I would think colourful and Maian, but under duress I suspect Rongo Rongo Easter Island.

In answer to your three questions....

Quote:Will this be used in the mod for the Argonians of Legio Argonis if completed?

reply: I would like to see that, if you based your Argonian Alphabet on Rongo Rongo and ammended it to something unique.

Quote:Should it be completed, could it be official Silgrad lore from that point on?

That is a core decision, but if it turns out as excellent as I expect, then I think the Core will be delighted.

Quote:I am free to use it on Vvardenfell right?

As I understand it Vvardenfell is yoursYou are the project head are you not?

Quote:I intend to use it for the Argonians on the Vvar. side of the Bitter Coast.

You may use it as you see fit in Vvardenfell if you are project head, but I think that you will need to consider carefully how it came to be used on the island, and by whome...this is not about authority, but about how it will fit...

I see myself as serving the community, and I suspect that is what you do however you think of your role, so consider how the community might react to anything new.

By the way, I am starting to feel a bit jealous. I would be proud to host such a project in Lit Dev! But maybe this could be presented as a 'Book.' As well as being Lore and Part of a Quest? Who knows, if you are doing the work you decide what you are going to do until you hand it in...thenyu just have to trust others...

RongoRongo sounds good

Quote:Originally posted by raggidman
By the way, I am starting to feel a bit jealous. I would be proud to host such a project in Lit Dev! But maybe this could be presented as a 'Book.' As well as being Lore and Part of a Quest? Who knows, if you are doing the work you decide what you are going to do until you hand it in...thenyu just have to trust others...

perhap it will be moved to Lit.Developement.... I dunno, in Silgrad I see myself as a common modder.... in TES4 I am leader.... but always just as respectful and respectable hopefully

Quote:I am free to use it on Vvardenfell right?

As I understand it Vvardenfell is yoursYou are the project head are you not?
hrug: I just wanna make sure SIlgrad won't have anything against it.... some mods would have stuff against it and I wann make sure Silgrad isn;t against this kind of thing which I doubt it is... as it would be my invention anyhow....

Well Lore is a Core decision, so now that you have something to show and work with PM Raz or Quen?

Quote:Originally posted by raggidman
Well Lore is a Core decision, so now that you have something to show and work with PM Raz or Quen?

yeah, once it is done, I will show and talk to Razorwing and Quentin Fortune

this is the dumbest thing I've ever done....
the number system I made is cool.... but cumbersome....
and the alphabet... looks weird.... it is based on what I think the mouth would be like when you make a sound
the combined letters are just combined versions... and then theres the pictographic prefixes

looks really dumb... but its what I made so far... probably gonna trash it....

EDIT: my scanner is giving me a hard time X(