Silgrad Tower from the Ashes

as you all know the great house war is a complex questing of various now allied factions... this makes it complex since in most game it is a third party, a neutral faction that you join and do stuff for.... like the Blades.... here it is a war

so we decided on the war-room idea, the strategizing chamber... each side has one...
The Hlaalu-Dres Alliance have a war-room that has Dres & Hlaalu generals,& the Nord, Duke and Helseth's generals.
The Triple Alliance of Telvanni, Redoran, Indoril as well as ashlanders and betmer have their own war-room....

alright.... so if that is so... we will need to decide how the questing goes...

• first step is a series of minor quests that will start off the war...
  
• then, a hortator is made for each side, if you are in the traditionalist alliance you get hortator tokens from Telvanni, Redoran, and Indoril. If you are from the revolutionary (royal) League you get Hlaalu and Dres tokens and maybe a little something from Helseth.
  
• then you get quests (battles) from your commander- who will be either the head of the House, or the highest House general

this is when I want to discuss....

when you join Redoran you basically signed up for the Redoran/Indoril aspect
when you join Telvanni you signed up to fight the Telvanni side of the war
when you join Hlaalu you signed up for the Hlaalu's side fo the war
(and Dres as well if it is joinable)

now lets think of the others.... ashlanders, betmer, and Nords...
because someone doesn't necessarily HAVE to join a house, they may fight the war through one of these three factions.... basically, if you are a Cyrodiilic, Nord, or Breton- the Nordic Raiders is available... if you are Dunmer ashlanders is open, and if you are any kind of Betmer then the betmer are for you...


so when you decide to "start" the war.... you can be the lead of Redoran (Indoril), Telvanni, Hlaalu, (Dres?), Nord, Ashlander, or Betmer
I guess if we do it that way we can have several different quest paths... all from a different perspective....

the Hlaalu side of the spectrum could be them struggling to fight off the Redoran...
the Dres would be their hounding down the Indoril and besieging Telasero and Molag Mar
the Nords would be raids on Tel Mora, Khuul, Ald Velothi, Gnsis and mainly fights with Rotheran and Valenvaryon
the Telvanni would be fighting against Dres and Morrowind Legions
the Redoran (Indoril) would be fighting Hlaalu and Dres and Morrowind Legions
the ashlanders would be raiding and also coming down Nabia R. to raid the ascadian isles
the betmeri would be fighting Nords from Sheogorad as well as striking Dres fromthe mushroom forests and Hlaalu towns from the Bitter Coast

so I am wondering, should we:

1. make several quest-lines for the different factions
   and if you are part of more than one faction you choose which faction to fight for, you only get Hortator tokens from the Houses, but the factions will give you items too, so no loss, you need to give back the Hortator items later anyhow
   
2. make one single questline for that entire alliance
   this would be simplest.... but shuts out all the perspective in the war.... you basically see one linear thing instead of a few different groups with their armies having very different stories of the battles and the war as a whole...
   [/list=a]
   
   we need to decide on that....
   
   

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   [/hr]
   
   after deciding that we need to finalize what are the joinable factions...
   involved will be:
   Great House Hlaalu
   Great House Redoran
   Great House Telvanni
   Great House Dres
   Indoril Clans
   Sheogorad Nords
   Ashlanders
   Betmeri League
   Morrowind Legion
   Imperial Guard
   
   they all have big roles except the Imperial Guard.... its certain that Hawkmoth Legion, Ebonheart Guard, Pelagiad Legion, Wolverine Hall Guard, and Moonmoth Legion are on the Helseth side....
   but the Deathshead Legion and the combined Ald-ruhn Fighters Guild and the remnants of the Buckmoth Legion... the Orcs in Gnisis sympathize with orcsof Valenvaryon, the Dunmer in those Legions sympathize with the Redoran, as do mostof the Imperials there too... they might defect to the Redoran side
   therefore Imperial Guard seems divided... so I don't think they will be playing a big role in the war other than defence
   
   the Morrowind Legion is basically Helseth's attempt to form a few Legions of his own. they are from all over Morrowind, trained like Imperial Legions but with harsher discipline and more brutal... the Dunmer way... they are Helseth's and of course he lends them to Duke Vedam Dren. I don't think they are joinable. Perhaps they should be.....
   
   Sheogorad Nords, Ashlanders, Betmeri League all play large roles but have somewhat unconventional wars. More of the raiding and less open field-combat.... regardless they do have a large part to play
   
   and Dres.... should they be joinable? or maybe joinable but not a fullfledged House? perhaps they can be handled like a "minor" group like ashlanders, betmer and nords.... who knows, this all needs discussion
   
   

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   [/hr]
   by the way, I have already begun planning for the battles
   so whatever course of actions is taken we/I will be ready

I'd say Dres should be a joinable faction, to balance out having to joinable houses on each side. As for how the war should work I think it be a combination of a and b, you have to join a Great House, and then you have the option of joining a minor faction (i.e. ashlanders, nords, ect.) Each house will have a questline, but there will be bonuses, special objectives and rewards, and the occasional sidequest thrown into the mix based off the minor faction you joined. For example you join Redoran and you're given a mission to clear a Hlaalu outpost: if you joined ashlanders you are supposed to locate an heirloom that belonged to an ashlander warrior slain by the Hlaalu and bring it back to his tribe. If you joined the Betmeri there is a particularly cruel Dres warrior at the fort who was a slaver before the emancipation, when you attack the outpost he will flee: you have to hunt him down and bring the Betmeri his head.

wow... good idea.... makes it much more complex... but more fun.... this will be tough...
and bit crazy too..... but you know what, I like crazy.... I'll give it some thought

Sounds like the kinds of quests you'd expect in the game at launch, not just silly mod content. +my approval.

well we ARE basically make a new game, sorta...

It would be less complex than making totally unique questlines for each faction, this way allows for us to put more detail into the mainquestline of each house, while adding to the replay factor. Really the varying objectives based on minor faction are just an extra line of code here and there to activate the bonuses.

now that I think about it... we need to balance it out


Revolutionaries
Royal Morrowind Legion
Great House Hlaalu
Great House Dres*
Sheogorad Nords
Traditionalists
Great House Redoran*
Great House Telvanni
Betmeri League*
Ashlander Tribes

*not yet joinable
*includes Redoran
*may be split into two groups

but if you add Helseth's Legions, it evens it out...
and since Imperial Guard is more peace-keeping than real wartime now EXCEPT Pelagiad and Ebonheart and Moonmoth
since Ald-ruhn and Gnisis are at the mercy of the Redoran plus they are friends... and Wolverine Hall is basically irrelavent

but there is big debate about House Dres, they have a say in Vvardenfell but aren't a big player here... unlike on the mainland... they do have a big role but aren't as a big a presence as say Hlaalu...



Hlaalu - Redoran
Dres - Telvanni
Nord - Betmer
? - Ashlander
Legion - Redoran/Indoril/Telvanni

I say maybe Nord/Hlaalu fights the ashlanders, what I mean is equal in strength
the Redoran/Indoril/Telvanni is Indoril backed up, but they are "under" Redoran section

after rethinking this dilemna....

we want to make this a balanced equation...
on one side are: Great House Hlaalu, Sheogorad Nords, Dres Warlords
on another are: Great House Redoran, Great House Telvanni, Betmeri League*, Ashlander Tribes, Indoril Refugees
*this faction may be revised, for now "betmer" is a place-holder name

this is obviously uneven in numbers... that's not good...
so what can we add to the Royalists? Helseth's power? what else?

let us look at another three factors... leadership / military / economy / endurance / population, all 1-5
leadership is not only that they have good leaders but that these leaders are free to exert power, with little opposition from within, so therefore say the Dres, they have a strong leadership because no internal opposition (and their warlords are good leaders) so it does not only mean good leaders, but also overall leadership
military is relative, so even though Valenvaryon orcs are strong, they can be way outnumbered
endurance takes into account how long they can fight a war, and also how long their numbers can keep it up, so basically a rating how well they can stay in the war without total annihilation

• Hlaalu - 3 / 4 / 5 / 4
  Nord - 4 / 3 / 2 / 5
  Dres - 5 / 1 / 1 / 2
  
  Redoran - 5 / 5 / 4 / 5
  Telvanni - 3 / 4 / 3 / 3
  Betmer - 3 / 3 / 1 / 4
  Ashlander - 2 / 2 / 1 / 4
  Indoril - 4 / 1 / 1 / 2

which means...

• Royalists
  - avg. - 4 / 2.7 / 2.7 / 3.7
  - sum - 9 / 8 / 8 / 11
  Traditionalists
  - avg. - 3.4 / 3 / 2 / 3.6
  - sum - 17 / 15 / 10 / 18

this may not be totally accurate but gives us a rough picture of what is happening... so we need to even it out...

so if we look at counters
Hlaalu and Redoran are almost equal, but Hlaalu economy and population is better and Redoran military and morale is better, it sort of evens out
Nords are less entrenched but can keep sending in numbers, ashlanders and Betmer can wage a long-war but their numbers increase only slowly, their loss of troops will hurt more.
The Dres and Indoril are practically equals no doubt

so who will face Telvanni?

Another problem is that I believe most Dres likely aren't happy with the alliance with House Hlaalu, being loyal traditionalists along with Indoril...

And Helseth probably isn't all too loyal to the Imperials. He's a corrupt, power hungry bastard; he's playing with politics and such to set him in a position where he can get more power (he's learned this from politics in High Rock).

very very true....
I think when we look at all this we also need to consider betrayals...

so maybe SOME Dres troops can be found mixed in with Redoran, people who felt that they should be siding with their traditional allies..
also, the Dres living close to Hlaalu and Indoril borders would be better with Helseth's policices since they probably don't like Indoril's aggressions and trade with Hlaalu, but the ones in the deep south are probably unhappy since they fight argonians and once the slaves were freed, they found themselves in DEEP trouble...
also, the Hlaalu may not necessarily like Helseth.... so a few might go to the other side, in hopes that he/she can also get some power for him/herself...

but anyhow, this war is not condoned by Helseth, nor by most mainlanders...
Great House Indoril probably sees the Indoril refugees as traitors fleeing from the civil war... the Great House Dres sees the warlords are upstarts and troublemakers... the Great House Hlaalu sees the Vvardenfell Hlaalu as incapable of dealing with the situation and avoiding war. the Redoran on mainland see Venim as a dictator of sorts (even though it's more like his political alliance with Athyn Sarethi makes him popular and able to centralize the council), and so the mainland Redoran don't like him that much. Additionally, the Telvanni led by Aryon are being aggressive, that is in direct violation to the mainland Telvanni's treaties with Helseth and also their unspoken rule of thumb...


therefore, finding factions to balance it out is tough...