Silgrad Tower from the Ashes

the thing to consider with respects to their secular position and continuity of the game... the Redoran have two main holdings, mainland and Vvardenfell...
on the mainland, the Redoran are not as united as on the island, the mainland Redoran answer to local councilors... the majority of the Council had been moved to Vvardenfell by Bolvyn Venim but some probably remain to take care of the mainland.
So in order to fill in some gaps I am going to put forward an explanation, and I hope it will either alert you guys to an issue and ease your concerns, or give us all a solution for this situation...

things to consider:
- Redoran situation so far in Morrowind
- freedom of each mod to have its own agenda
- overall continuity and agreement

so having mutual understanding on how the Redoran are doing would be good for when we do lore and dialogue, etc. So I shall tell you all what I see is happening and you guys can tell me how you see it and discuss...

So let me start with Vvardenfell...
On Vvardenfell, the economy is powered by ebony, in addition to the normal Redoran products of guar-hides, muck, and alcohols. The son of Bolvyn, Ralos Venim, is now the Chief Councilor of the Vvardenfell Redoran. However he is a sort of facist leader centralizing the authority as needed and with the prudent advice of Athyn Sarethi, adapting to new situations. Therefore, the Redoran of Vvardenfell, having survived Nord raids and Daedric invasions have become centralized, militaristic, and strongly opposed to the Hlaalu and Helseth who simply tried to profit from the hardships of the Redoran.

However, there is no doubt that the centralizing of Vvardenfell Redoran and their aggressive policies is looked down upon by mainland Redoran. This leads me to my next point....

Silgrad Tower and Blacklight Redoran...
From what I understand, the Redoran leadership of the Silgrad/Blacklight areas have become used to shared power between Imperials and Redoran Councilors. However, from what I gather, there is a growing sense of self-determination in this region of the Redoran as Soluthis has taken Reich Parkeep I think, and Cormaris View has become a regional power. Although these Redoran do not advocate aggressive policies, they are beginning to take back what was theirs. They are bearing the brunt of the Nordic invasion, while their Vvardenfell brothers are fighting mostly Daedric enemies.

and then I shall also mention southern Redoran briefly...
the southern Redoran have not seen war for a long time. No doubt they still retain their martial traditions and there may have been some border clashes between them and the rapidly expanding Hlaalu. However, situated around Kragenmoore are strategic forts and the Redoran here control trade in the region which must go through certain passes and roads as most of the land is mountainous or marsh. They are far removed fro the troubles of Vvardenfell and the Nords but they do have to contend with expansionist Hlaalu.

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so I think we can conclude that although there is a Great House Redoran, they are in a sense split into two groups, mainlanders, and Vvardenfell... the two sidesof the House have very different agendas....
also, whereas the Redoran of northern Redoran territory are rising up with defensive action against the Nords, the southern ones are controlling trade and containing Hlaalu expansion.

so I just want to make it clear that there would be a natural rift between the Islanders and the mainlanders, and that they all have their own agendas though they are all one House. Onthe mainland Ralos Venim could be seen as a war-mongering but strong leader, though still an upstart; however on Vvardenfell he would be seen as a savior of the Redoran-folk

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Razorwing, Rodan, Quentin... etc., is this basically what you had in mind or is it at least a good idea for an explanation of why the Redoran has such diverse agendas and struggles? If not, let's discuss

Nice initiative KuKulzA :goodjob:

Early on, before release, I entertained the idea that the Imperial forces would withdraw from Morrowind to bolster the defense of Cyrodiil. But as the events of the game became clear, that started to seem illogical. For one, the game doesn't say that forces are being pulled back, so we would have broken lore rather than playing into it by doing it that way. So, the Imperials are still in control of Reich Parkeep, and the Redorans confined to the lower grounds.

I would imagine their income in the central mainland area around RP comes from farming, and from mining ore and gems. Mostly the latter, I would imagine, since the area is meant to be hilly. Creating glass- and other deposit meshes should be pretty straightforward.

Hmm, come to think of it... maybe modding Solstheim wouldn't be a bad idea after all... I mean, wouldn't it be a staging area from where Nords can threaten both Blacklight's and Vvardenfell's Redoran population? Perhaps we should look for a "mayor" for the little island?

I don't have an opinion on the southern Redorans around Kragenmoor, but I don't disagree with your assessment.

:bananarock: Your take on things works in terms of all that I think of with both games and mods to date KK.

Razorwing, maybe what has happened is that the events mentioned in TES3 that sparked the 'rumour' that came from NPC 'conversations' in Ebonheart and Pelagiad about riots in Cyrodiil re the Prices and the withdrawal of the Legions ran their course?

It might be that the villain in TES4 was just flexing his wings during TES3 and causing problems to see what general reactions would be before getting serious in TES4.

The 'withdrawal' might have just been a downsizing or temporary redistribution, etc. But there again, you are not held to this. If some of the Legions that were withdrawn were later disbanded with the disappearance of the threat from Dagoth Ur, there might be little or no evidence of the changes? and likewise, the process of withdrawing or adjusting the Legions might have been halted or reversed. Such activities might be noted in Legion outpost towns, but go unremarked by most in the Capital etc...

Certainly, KK's assessment accords with my own view of the Legions, that adjustments were made in TES3, but the moment when the Emperor died and the Gates opened was not responded to as the Emperor did not know that he was actually going to die then, he was just fleeing from a local threat, and with his death the Legions lost their central command. So who would take over? There is chaos in the Legions Command Structure and they need an heir to function.

As they are centrally directed, in the absence of strategic oversight and direction, local Legion Commanders will act on their own initiative to preserve their units pending re-establishment of proper authority. Because if they act without such authority then they could be seen as renegades and arrested.

Regarding the Redoran asessment the process you described mirrors the Legion's position in a different way in that such a fracturing of purposes and responses would naturally weaken a military focussed House such as the Redoran, and goes a long way to explain the change in the balance of power.

If the Redoran Heartland (around RP and ST) has rich minerals but comparatively average agriculture that would explain their miltary traditions = they expanded into agricultural areas backed by their military in earlier ages = successful, and the Southern Redorans would be more agriculturally oriented at base. For military you need good supply.

Maybe there is something that is interfering with the links between ST and the southern area, further weakening the Redoran link to their agri areas? Added to which the Empire having logically moved into the ST area adjacent as it is to Cyrodiilwill have further reduced the Redoran agri and industrial base.

The idea about Solstheim makes great sense too, as there were so many smugglers there, they might have been funded by the Nords to pave the way for their later invasion, or their operations were sufficiently successful those smugglers might now be be some of the movers those behind the Nord invasion?

Could the Nords easily overcome the Legion outpost and East Empire settlement at Raven Rock on Solstheim? If so then the island would be perfect for their purposes - just so long as they like werewolves and keep away from tombs...

Their obvious next move to Dagon Fell would be far easier with such a base...

Quote:Originally posted by Razorwing
Early on, before release, I entertained the idea that the Imperial forces would withdraw from Morrowind to bolster the defense of Cyrodiil. But as the events of the game became clear, that started to seem illogical. For one, the game doesn't say that forces are being pulled back, so we would have broken lore rather than playing into it by doing it that way. So, the Imperials are still in control of Reich Parkeep, and the Redorans confined to the lower grounds.

Taking in account the REAL scale of Tamriel (not the TES4, but f.e.5-6x times larger then area in TES2), it would take many months to move the legions. The main story of TES4 is rather quick - escape from prison, weynon priory, the same night - Kvatch destroyed....It all should be about 2-3 weeks.

So I suppose the legions have moved, but they are still on march - and as the rumors come slowly (not much faster then legions), people in Cyrodiil don't know about this. Persons, that have access to magical talking (if this exists in Tamriel), may prefer to keep this in secret, and all the authorities too..

Raggidman: Raven Rock went bankrupt in TES4's timeline. (You can find some NPC's who were construction workers there.) And, this rumor:
"There are rumors that the Nords are attempting to capture the whole of Solstheim, and remove the Imperial fort on the island."

good points everyone :goodjob:

solstheim is captured by Nords and Sheogorad Islands have been traditionally Nordic for some times in history and Dagon Fel is beinbg repopulated by Nords... so Solstheim is not a bad idea afterall...

the Northern Redoran seem mostly herders, miners, farming, and such in the hilly lands... the southern more into agriculture... and the Vvardenfell, herding, mining, fishing - and all of them the alcohol brewing I think since each region has its different agendas but the neutrality if Silgrad Tower in the center of mainland Redoran is splitting their territory in a way.... so of like Germany and east Prussia... and then there is the Redoran on Vvardenfell who have the half-hearted support of the mainlanders... (though half-hearted in terms of Redoran would be great compared to others like Telvanni or Hlaalu)

and about timing you are right... the Legions are probably gradually withdrawing and probably only starting to amass at the borders of Cyrodiil at the moment as they may draw half of a legion from every fort and then reorganize legions to send back to Cyrodiil therefore making the half withdrawal gradual and provinces less likely to defect from the Empire quickly...

Quote:they may draw half of a legion from every fort and then reorganize legions to send back to Cyrodiil therefore making the half withdrawal gradual and provinces less likely to defect from the Empire quickly...

I'm gonna make sure I get the choice to make Morrowind defect from the Empire, though. :yes:

Quote:Originally posted by Axen
I'm gonna make sure I get the choice to make Morrowind defect from the Empire, though. :yes:

And conquer Skyrim ))

note that in Redoran, Telvanni,and Hlaalu this is happening to some extent, but moreso to Redoran whos resources are stretched thin and have been weakened by successive invasions...
the Hlaalu on Vvardenfell do not totally represent the interests of the mainland ones as the ones on Vvardenfell had used illegal methods and corruption in the Imperial administration to gain such a powerful hold. The Telvanni are led by Aryonwho is seen as an upstart by the mainland councilors and probably by Neloth and Dratha (and Gothren if he was still alive) but he is not like Venim in that he can get himself allies and sources from mainland whereas Venim shuns the outside help and proudly forges ahead....

the Telvanni way and the Redoran way... a bit different :brew:

Quote::Bolvyn Venim:
"He is a strong leader, and has done great things for House Redoran. How can I explain the hold he has over the hearts of the Redoran people? He brought us back from certain defeat. He moved the council here to Vvardenfell and took our share of the frontier lands. He is a natural leader, born to rule. One only wishes he was just and fair as well as strong."

This means that on the mainland the Redoran were suffering... I believe this has to do with the Hlaalu's expansion....
map of Hlaalu expansion
red is Redoran and yellow is Hlaalu.... and green are fertile areas for farms
which would mean that Redoran are losing some of their best farmlands in the central plains to Hlaalu.... and also years of Imperial rule... result in the mainland Redoran struggling to retain autonomy while the majority of their leaders go to Vvardenfell and there they struggle to survive but do bring in more profits for the Great House.
remember this has all happened in the last 4 hundred years.... for thousands of years Hlaalu was a small harassed Great House but doing decently economically and they had many traders and farmers outside of their own territory, but with the Imperials coming they boomed and expanded drastically... taking Indoril and Redoran lands...

I think that in Silgrad Tower mod, there should be small raiding parties of Hlaalu coming up from the south to represent Hlaalu expansion...