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I am thinking this could be one of 3 main quests....
1. is about the crime network in Argonia
2. is about the war brewing on the northern border
3. is about Murkwood, Eye of Argonia, Kothringi, etc.

ok so... the #1.... and expect this to be all spoilers, I mean we are DEVs, not common players....


The Myth of Sotho

Involved Factions:
Royal Army
Gustu Service
Nodo Tren
Fog-hi Tren
Knahaten Liberation
Shadowscales
Blackwood Co.
Farthen Gang
Resulting Faction joining:
Royal Court or Sotho Tren

Hu-Jutha ? Sload (F)
Mailic ? Redguard (M)
Uupse Dres ? Dunmer (F)
Kolgr the Green ? Nord (M)
Annabelle Rensky ? Breton (F)
Decius Flamius ? Imperial (M)
Banhira ? Khajiit (F)
Gulis Faren ? Dunmer (M)
Agrut gra-Makesh ? Orc (F)
Holds-His-Foot ? Argonian (M)
Jeet-ei ? Argonian (M)
Unktap ? Naga (M)
Ko-Juuk ? Kothringi (M)
Flavius Maetus ? Imperial (M)
Husca-Keel ? Argonian (M)


Holds-His-Foot is the boss, who is also Sotho. His agent is Jeet-ei.
The boss needs to find a way to clear his name. He knows the Royal Court is hot on his trail. He is responsible for smuggling weapons to Eleedal-Lei, for starting the Knahaten Liberation to drive away the Blackwood Co., and also making the Fog-hi Tren and the Nodo Tren, the two gangs of Black Marsh, a force to be reckoned with. Few know that Sotho works as a common criminal and that Sotho is a fake name. While the Nodo Tren is a weapons dealing gang, the Fog-hi Tren is a drug dealing one. In the underworld, it is not the one with more weapons, or more brothers, or more connections, it is the one who is willing to go farther than others that wins. Sotho has become the secret leader of a terrorist group, a supplier of Shadowscales to the Dark Brotherhood, the boss of two gangs, the unofficial sponsor of the Arena in Black Marsh, a slave in Tear, and a Nine Divines cleric.
Long ago, when Cyrodiilic governors become tyrants, Sotho started a rebellion and quickly began his career in the underground. Eventually, he took bigger jobs and bigger jobs and came in contact with a tyrant who wanted to assassinate the Royal Clan. Sotho took the job and succeeded in killing one of the Royalty. The Cyrodiilic was later deposed and imprisoned but he knows that Sotho killed the King?s cousin. He is also one of the few who know Sotho?s identity. Sotho needs to kill that Cyrodiilic, but even the great Sotho, with eyes and ears everywhere doesn?t know where he is.
Therefore he is seeking a team that can help clear his name. He needs the best criminals in Black Marsh to help him. And luckily for him there has recently been a breakout in Blackrose, but was it a band of escaping criminals, or a planned rescue?

So he needs to test his potentials. His agent, Jeet-ei, gathers criminals in a tavern in Chasepoint. Meanwhile, the Royal Agent sends some to go there (the player). Two teams of five are made. The teams are:
Holds-His-Foot, (player name), Banhira, Agrut gra-Makesh, Gulis Faren
Mailic, Uupse Dres, Kolgr the Green, Annabelle Rensky, Decius Flamius
They are then told of their quest?

Quest 1
There is a band of criminal guards called the Gustu Service. If paid enough, these corrupt guards will escort criminals where they need to go. This group has been hurting the Royal Army?s guard division?s moral and credibility for several years. Hu-Jutha, a wealthy Sload necromancer and merchant, and feared in the underworld and almost unknown in the open, is going to be escorted from Riverwalk to Thorn. The criminal world doesn?t want to lose him, but Sotho wants to hit the Royal Army hard as well as hurting Hu-Jutha, who poses a rising threat as she is becoming powerful. However both teams know if they don?t succeed they will be killed. Holds-His-Foot ingeniously devises a plan. He has the thief put a laxative in the other team?s food and contacts Naga thugs. The other teams cannot catch the Gustu Service because they are ill and so Holds-His-Foot?s team goes ahead. The Mages dispels the Sload?s magic, the assassin hits the escort captain, the strongman distracts them, the thief steals the money, and the planner lights the signal fire. Soon the Nagas appear to start attacking what?s left of the escort while the Sload escapes as does the team. [The player is told to go kill Hu-Jutha.] The Royal Army soon appears and disperses the Naga and realizes their corrupt branch has been revealed, a shameful semi-secret of the department. A letter will be found beside you the next time you awake telling you to go to a certain store in Archon.

Quest 2
Having accomplished the first job, Jeet-ei has another job for them. As they go into a store in Archon, they hear screams from the other room. They run in and see the other team, terribly mauled and dead. Jeet-ei informs them that it is all business and the price of failure. The agent tells them that the Blackwood Company is making a move. It wants to revitalize its power and so is making an enormous deal with the Camonna Tong, a two-pronged attack on both the Fog-hi Tren and the Nodo Tren. In exchange for helping the Blackwood Co., the Camonna Tong gets fences in Arensia and a year of protected skooma trade; that is the Company will protect the smugglers. The Trens with be in huge trouble if they don?t get help. And of course Sotho is going to give a large reward. The team is told that the Farthen Gang is a local Dunmer syndicate that is enemies with the Camonna Tong and was driven into Argonia. The gang wants revenge and will do anything. Also the Knahaten Liberation can help in dealing with the Blackwood Co. which is bringing in a lot of Cyrodiilics as reinforcement. Holds-His-Foot quickly devises a plan. The team will stop the Camonna Tong first by manipulating the Farthen Gang. A Dres pirate ship is docked near Archon, it belongs to the Camonna Tong. Thugs are already unloading weapons and supplies from the boat and have set up a temporary camp. However the boss of the operation is staying in the ship. The Farthen Gang is convinced to attack the camp and when they do, the five man team must go in and kill the Camonna boss. Once that is done, the Royal Army will show up to catch the criminals, but your team will scatter and Holds-His-Foot will tell you all to meet outside of Gideon. Once in Gideon, the team will get together and find the Knahaten Liberation. Their contact is a teacher at the local chapel in Glenbridge who educates Argonians. She says it was the Liberation that helped supply books and paper as well as supplies. She tells you to travel to Tenmar Wall where someone who knows more about them might be living. The team goes there and is confronted by a healer in the village, known for its giant earthen wall nearby. The healer says it was the Liberation that supplied potions for the healers and also protected the town from the Blackwood Co. He tells the team that the village of Pholmolo has answers. When you go there, the tribesmen will point you to a cave nearby. And when you go within, the Knahaten Liberation leader stops you. The leader, Husca-Keel, welcomes the team and says he heard that Sotho had sent them. He says that the Liberation is well entrenched in the Blackwood District. The Liberation provides a Hist cult as a means for wayward Argonians to return to the old ways, brings books and potions and supplies to Argonians living in towns, and proved to be a strong resistance against the Blackwood Co. When asked who Sotho is, Husca-Keel says he isn?t sure but there is a mysterious Argonian who is behind it all, but Husca-Keel himself is the main leader of the group itself but someone else handles the connections and supplying, he is simply content with things as they are. He says that the Knahaten Liberation was originally a corps. from the Royal Army, specially trained to fight the Blackwood Co., however after the Company was defeated these soldiers turned paramilitary and refused to relinquish their weapons. They went on to help train the Nodo Tren which helped them acquire vast profits, which they used to help the Argonians living in the Blackwood District. However the job is simple. The Blackwood Co. will attack Pholmolo soon and you will help defend it, the Knahaten Liberation guerillas will help as well. However when the attack is over, Husca-Keel will be distraught, a powerful artifact was stolen during the fight. You and the team will go recover it and give it to him, and be well rewarded. You and the team are told by a messenger to go to Blackrose.

Quest 3
When in Blackrose, Jeet-ei will tell you there is one escaped convict from Blackrose named Flavius Maetus. He is to be killed, along with the others. Tracking him down will be hard but asking inmates of the Rose will allow you to find a place to start. After reaching Greenspring, asking and intimidating locals will point you towards a cave In there are the convicts but they won?t be easy to take out. When you reach the last cavern, a figure will be hiding and whimpering not to be killed. He will say that he knows you are looking for Flavius, and Flavius was taken away by Khajiits long ago soon after he broke out of the Rose. Return to Blackrose and tell Jeet-ei the story.
Quest 4
You will all meet in a tavern in Soulrest. Jeet-ei will inform you that there is a huge skooma enchange about to take place near Soulrest. The participating groups are very tense. Khajiits are going to trade the skooma to the Camonna. The deal must be prevented and the team is told to do it; any money found there and any loot can be claimed and divided amongst the team in any way they so choose. One of the members asks Jeet-ei why they have to do this. Jeet-ei responds by saying that Sotho knows everything about them, and no one knows much about him, and if he wants them turned over to the authorities, he can. He also says that Sotho?s methods for punishing will be much worse than the notorious methods of the Argonia Royal Army. The teammate threatens to kill Jeet-ei, and the agent coolly responds that death will be nothing compared to what will happen to him if he does not follow his orders. The team is convinced and fearful but not cowed, yet. Jeet-ei then tosses some papers on the table. The papers contain all relevant information on all the teammates, birthplace, sign, heritage, crimes, etc. Jeet-ei then says, ?Sotho knows everything he needs to know, and now you know what you need to know. Tonight, you will get the job done.? It is of course a suicidal mission but the team has no choice. That night a ship docked in the Soulrest harbor will have several gangsters guarding it. The team will have to break in, kill the guards, then go through locked doors and traps to get to the skooma. When they get to the room that supposedly has the drugs, it is empty, the window is open and someone evidently escaped. Suddenly Jeet-ei appears and starts shooting fireballs. Holds-His-Foot will say, ?Jump out the window! We?ve been double-crossed!? and push you out. The three others die. He and you swim to shore and guards will surround you, led by the Royal Agent. Holds-His-Foot will be paralyzed and the Royal Agent will congratulate you on your successes. He says that Holds-His-Foot will be interrogated and you questioned. After you answer his questions he and you bring Holds-His-Foot to the Guard depot of Soulrest to be interrogated.

Quest 5
In the clutter Guard Depot, with posters and notes on the walls, the Royal Agent and Holds-His-Foot are having a pleasant conversation. You are there as a witness.
?What was being traded??
?I don?t know, they said there was skooma??
?What said there would be drugs??
?An agent, a marshbrother named Jeet-ei?
?And what did it work for??
?He- ?
?WHAT DID IT WORK FOR!?
?Sotho.?
?Sotho? Really? now how do you know??
?He said so, and he double-crossed us later, yess?
?Do you know what it was?!?
?No..?
?It was Flavius Maetus, the only one who can get Sotho.?
?You know I was once in a play, it was called Scarlet Harlot- ?
?Shut up, back to the story!?
?So they weren?t trading skooma at all??
?NO, now you will tell me how to get to Sotho.?
?Why.?
?Cause I know you know, I can tell. You?ve got blunt teeth and a lame leg, but you?re clever. Now, where is??
?You want Flavius don?t you? well I will tell you that Sotho wants him too?
?So if we have Flavius then he will come.?
?I doubt it?
?Then what- ?
?You said this was for Flavius, then Flavius has escaped, someone will find him, Sotho will kill him.?
?You are sure??
?Yes, I do not fear Mehrunes Dagon but I fear Sotho.?
?Really? how do we know Sotho exists??
?Because as soon as I leave this Depot, after you free me, I will either be killed or kidnapped. You know you cannot kill me, I am too valuable for your search.?
?But I can lock you up, protect you and find Sotho, he who you fear.?
?It is no use, I am no rat, unlike this one here. I will live or die out there. If you lock me up, tomorrow morning I?ll be dead.?
?What do you know Sotho??
?Let?s look way back there??
?Hurry up?
?We were out in Bravil once, he was doing small time dealings then, and he met a fence called Horse-Fat?. One big chubby guy? and it wanted more and more and so Sotho took on bigger and bigger jobs. Eventually he disappeared.?
?Really? and how much of all you have said is true??
?Only as much as you believe.?
?So what do you know about his personal life??
?Well once his family was taken hostage by a rival gang and when he returned home they demanded all his money and his turf and took a handful of darts and killed all his family and all but one of the gangsters and told him to go home and tell everyone that Sotho was willing to go to any extreme. Like I said. Later he killed all the gangsters, all their families, and all their friends, one by one.?
?Really??
?Yes, and this was in Elsweyr, in a place called Tenic?
?And where did he go next??
?I think he disappeared then but last I heard of him, before the ship deal, was that he was in Morrowind picking saltrice in Tear. I remember those days, those damn Dunmer picked on me because of my lame leg, it was alright before then but then they really screwed it up.?
?And then? How come there is stuff about him here??
?Well, you see, he came back for old Flavius, but also, he came back for the Eye of Argonia??
?That?s bullshit-?
?Why? You don?t believe-?
?Look, I am smarter than you, I am going to find Sotho and all of them? and you think Sotho will get you after I set you free? Well, look, every guard who owes me a favor, everyone of my connections, ever Shadowscale I know, every other agent, every convict that owes me life debt? you think you can trick me! I know you know Sotho? and I will get him!?
?Well if you are smarter than me then I guess I am free to go??
?Very well, you may leave now.?
Talking to the Royal Agent again will show a dialogue option saying ?He Lied?. When you do, the Agent will ask you how you know. At this point a notice will appear telling you to look around the room for clues. On the wall there is a poster about discounted Horse-fat used in greasing clogs and wheels. Another paper is an advertisement about an inn called the Scarlet Harlot. Another has a bounty notice on a very fat looking Cyrodiilic criminal, his name was Tenic. Then the Royal Agent will realize that Holds-His-Foot is Sotho, that he had lied using clues on the wall. ?Quick, Flavius is being held in the Rose, guarded by a large alligator. I will teleport you, we must stop Sotho!?

Quest 5
You are just outside the Rose Prison. A shady Argonian walks up to you and gives you the keys to the dungeon, and tells you to be careful, the guards will turn on you since you didn?t get authorization, but there isn?t enough time. So you go into the immense labyrinth and explore and evade guards. There are magical detectors that will dispel any chameleon or invisibility spells so you must sneak and run when you can. There are traps as well. Once you get to a dungeon guarded by an alligator, larger than all others, you will notice five dead assassins. Apparently Sotho had tried to have Flavius killed. You must kill the alligator, guards will not follow you this far as they will refuse to go near, and you can unlock the cell door with your key and find Flavius. He will tell you where to find Sotho. You must go to Rockspring, find a statue with an amulet on its neck, take it and go kill Sotho. The Amulet will bring you to Sotho?s hideout, Flavius says one of the assassins stabbed him before getting mauled by the alligator, and so cannot help you. He dies, and behind you the Royal Agent comes and says, ?alright, do as he says, head north to Rockspring. I will follow with reinforcements.?

Quest 6
When you do take the Amulet, a hole appears in a nearby stump. You go in and turn around drop the amulet and the Royal Agent picks it up. You then teleport and appear (in an interior cell) in the hideout. You must go through a few caverns of what seems like a man-made cavern amongst the roots of the stump. Finally you find a humble little cave dwelling where Holds-His-Foot is sitting. His guards jump out, a Kothringi and a Naga. The Naga growls, ?intruder!? and the Kothringi laughs and says, ?you thought we were all dead? Well you won?t live to tell of your discovery!? After they are dead, Holds-His-Foot says, ?Ah I see you know Sotho, but Sotho is just a position. Maybe after you kill me you will be Sotho? Well you know, it is tough being so clever, I almost tricked you didn?t I? You know who I really look up to? Dagoth Ur, god, assassin, mystic, crime-lord, he was everything and pulled the strings. I am the spider with a web all across Black Marsh? maybe you will be Sotho after me??
And then he leaps up and starts using his fists, be careful, he?s not bad at hand to hand. Once he is dead, the Royal Agent comes in with reinforcements and suddenly Jeet-ei appears?.
?So my master is dead? who will be the next Sotho? Who will continue the criminal underworld??
?Don?t listen to him! Let?s just Kill him!? yells the Royal Agent.
?Shut up! This is between me and Sotho?s killer.?
Suddenly everyone but you and Jeet-ei are paralyzed.
?I give you the choice, take over or kill me.?
1. choosing to kill him will grant you a position in the faction Royal Court. This will give you a salary and free guards which can be acquired at any guard depot and a room in the palace.
2. choosing to take over, then killing the Royal Agent will unlock a new faction?
continue #2:
Jeet-ei will tell you that while Holds-His-Foot was absent, the minor gangs struck and took down much of the Nodo Tren and the Fog-hi Tren, but uniting them into a Sotho Tren would unify their power, now that there is no longer a Royal Agent to get them and spies inform Jeet-ei that such a skilled Agent is not yet arisen in the Royal Court, being more active won?t hurt the new crime lord. So you say yes, and then become the new leader of a criminal organization. However the next few quests in the Sotho Tren will be to clear your name via intimidation, assassination, and sabotage as well as forgery. After that you can commit minor crimes and not be caught if you tell Jeet-ei who will have your name cleared in three days time.
Wow, that's long. But I like it (what I skimmed). Lots of twists and turns. We may have to change a few things for scripting's sake but it seems like a good base to me.
Quote:Originally posted by SwedishFish
Wow, that's long. But I like it (what I skimmed). Lots of twists and turns. We may have to change a few things for scripting's sake but it seems like a good base to me.
yeah, there will have to be LOTS of editing to make sure it runs smoothly and also fix any small bits of inconsistency that I accidentally put it and didn't fix
That was sweet kulu NOW DO THE WAR PARTSmile
{Deleted quote due to unneeded length, refer to previous post (SwedF)}

Without massive expasion, this would be better as a series of quests, rather than the main quest.

I like the idea of exposing a crime lord, but this needs alot of background work and cultural intergration, and it needs a more just means to catch and kill the guy rather than vague implications of a strong past. His character should be a bit more predominate in what he does if we are going to be convinced that we need to kill the man. Furthermore, if there are just reasons why someone would want to kill him, we r have to know. It's always helpful to give those reasons to the player, and to have them intergrated into the storyline masterfully rather than the reason to do the quest because it was there. We to involve underlying principles to drive the players to do the quest other than the fact that it is there.

For example, the main quest concept for the Valenwood/Elysweyer mod is very open ended. They speak of a few disturbing problems happening throughout the lands.

Using the Elder Scrolls formula, the main quest always involves three major steps: Problem, Solution, Implementation, Result.

You need to expand the problem here, show the pertenency of his importance, and if you want us to end up killing him, give us good ground to justify that he is indeed a bad enough dude for the action to take him down, because i'll tell ya right now, the way he's described gives me the idea to just sit down and drink a coca cola with Sithos. If you want to make him a likeable badguy, there are a few formulas that are good. (ask me if you want to know more)

The solution is good, and has some neat qualities. But don't let the good idea of the story ruin the quest, nor let the good ideas we have of quest replace a good storyline. Try to seek a balance, or very strong justifications/basis.

Implementing the solution needs to be deeply rooted. Once we start expanding, the location of those roots will become evident.

The result needs to have more of an influence on the land. Sotho was afterall involved with alot of people.


Now, to give you something to compare and contrast with, look how these things worked in Morrowind and Oblivion

1. Problem:
A. Morrowind: The sixth house is stirring up political turmoil and has Dargoth Ur leading it, who has released a blight all over morrowind.
B. Oblivion:
2. Solution:
A. Requires a massive undertaking to fix the problem, not only a linkage of quests but the factions involved were based on an underlying theme.
B. Same here, however it was more cinematic rather than lore based. And even was lacking severly sometimes in lore.
3. Implementation
A. Done well due to the lore's setup
B. Done well due to the games capabilites
4. Result
A. Somewhat apperant
B. More apperant than not, which raised overall coolness factor.


I am not a big fan of the formula, knowing that a good storyline doesn't have to be massive, however, this is what people are used to. To be honest, I would aim for just a dramatic storyline rather than the standard " Go here kill this guy and do that then take over the kingdom, which will make you well known, and gain levels and look cool/ THE END", in which the elder scrolls team has an annoying habit of doing. I would also make the characters really carry the storyline, rather than the actions/quests carry it, or at least try to cultivate a very worthy and healthy counterbalance of those ideas which the elderscrolls implement and then add in my little spices, which isn't a bad idea at all.

Well, as far as any additional systhesis goes, more content is required. You do seem to have a firm understanding of lore, however do not let that lore itself control the result of the storyline (which happened in oblivion). If you have a good idea, it is not required that you use it because sometimes the ideas stand for themselves. Focus on story development.
cruxvader.... I see what you mean...
you see this is all in my head... so in my head this Sotho guy... and mtyh crime lord is basically rumored behind every big crime in Black Marsh.... rumors of him ebing behind the Knahaten Liberation... and behind the Trens (basically like Guild... or Tong or Gang)... and also pulling strings and stuff....

i guess I need to explain it more...

so maybe you think more stories and quests of Sotho, BEFORE you and Holds-His-Foot (Sotho in reality) actually are together though at first you have no idea he is Sotho... which is the beauty of it all... that the greatest crime boss of the region would stick his head so close to danger to effectively clear himself... of course, it fails in the very end.... but does it have to? I dunno... maybe just leave it off with him succedding? I dunno...

and I agree... this is not so much a Main Quest than a super involved but small quest-line....
but it IS awesome idea If I may say so Cool


[/hr]
Quote:Originally posted by Ebonyknight
That was sweet kulu NOW DO THE WAR PARTSmile
man, it only gets better and better :yes:

well i am glad you read the whole thing... I'm amazed at myself too...
so many twists and turns and cleverly implemented crime world in a semi-mideaval setting...
inspired by the Lebanese Hezbollah, and the Vietminh/Vietcong, Chinese crime world, and several American crime movies Big Grin

well glad you guys liked it... and it is only a few quests... but they are probably damn hard to script... :|
You know, it might be a long shot, or a mish mash of ideas, but if we tried to intergrate all three together, and then cut away the bulk, we could brew something masterful. It'll take alot of lore digging and reevaluation.
How about during the quests you have a bunch of people you get to know and like(maybe a funny Khajit or Drunk orc or a skitso Dark elf, something funny to interact with) but Sotho has them killed for certain reasons. This deepens your hate for him. Have his crime directly affect you in some way.
By the way, I like to avoid cursing. To me, it shows poor choice of words in writing. I'm not saying you're stupid KK, far from it. I just hate cursing and how it has mutilated the morality of our society.
ok, I will stop swearing on forum... I basically type what i talk... and then try to refine a bit for better grammar...
but... well i guess I was sworn at and beaten a lot in childhood... lots of disciplining...

anyhow... maybe the last straw is you are informed a criminal claim has been made on you my an anonymous... maybe Sotho blaming on you... and then you get secretly contacted to join the teams of criminals who will do dangerous jobs and eventually clear their name... and along the way you find out Sotho is behind it all and you want to kill him... and at the end you find it is actually Holds-his-foot all along
Maybe after a certain about of Infamy the PC obtains, Sotho seeks to frame you due to your past. that'd be a good catcher
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