11-07-2006, 03:20 AM
Well, I was on TESSource, and I think I found something for a cover of Boethia's Pillow Book. The only thing is, it's really graphic, I mean, really, really graphic.
Here's a link to the mod
Here's a link to the mod
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11-07-2006, 03:20 AM
11-07-2006, 03:23 AM
When peeps go back to Vvardenfell, Drarayne Thelas the crazy pillow lady should have that stashed with her collection.
11-07-2006, 04:17 AM
Nice find! :goodjob:
?5 is pretty clear on the subject; we can use stuff like that in the mod. Whether we should or not is perhaps a different question. What do you guys think?
I think we should use the book cover, and I don't mind using the bookart either but I don't feel as strongly about that as I do about the book cover.
Another question is, was the book meant to be unique? I mean I think it was only found in one place in TES3, but it wasn't intended to be exactly unique was it?
?5 is pretty clear on the subject; we can use stuff like that in the mod. Whether we should or not is perhaps a different question. What do you guys think?
I think we should use the book cover, and I don't mind using the bookart either but I don't feel as strongly about that as I do about the book cover.
Another question is, was the book meant to be unique? I mean I think it was only found in one place in TES3, but it wasn't intended to be exactly unique was it?
11-07-2006, 04:28 AM
It is clearly listed this is an adult mod. However I'll leave the decision to all of you in charge of literature development. We should put this in a House of Earthly Delights.
Edit: and no, it wasn't unique. I'm guessing it was just unique for quest purposes, but by how they talked about it and seemed to know of it I'm guessing it's not the only one out there.
And I was only intending the cover. I'm guessing the bookart was pretty bad, but I havn't downloaded it yet.
Edit Edit: and now don't anyone get started on Silgrad becoming pornish. I don't want to see an argument on this subject and no suggestions of going way out there in pervertedness.
Edit: and no, it wasn't unique. I'm guessing it was just unique for quest purposes, but by how they talked about it and seemed to know of it I'm guessing it's not the only one out there.
And I was only intending the cover. I'm guessing the bookart was pretty bad, but I havn't downloaded it yet.
Edit Edit: and now don't anyone get started on Silgrad becoming pornish. I don't want to see an argument on this subject and no suggestions of going way out there in pervertedness.
11-07-2006, 08:29 AM
Quote:And I was only intending the cover. I'm guessing the bookart was pretty bad, but I havn't downloaded it yet.
The book art is 10x more graphic than the cover.
Really I think if your current guidelines are so loose they actually allow this sort of Graphic nudity and sexual content your guidelines need to be re-thought.
TOYB
11-07-2006, 08:44 AM
I like the guideline because it protects sensitive players without censoring modders.
The point is we're liberal and see ourselves as a mod for adults, which is even more obvious with the Oblivion mod since you have to be 18 to even buy the game. Of course I realize people under 18 play the game anyways, but if killing people in a videogame doesn't phase them then sex is unlikely to either. On the off chance that it does, there's the other side of the point - that things shouldn't be forced on the player. If a sensitive player runs into a book with a cover like that I wager they're not stupid enough to open it.
The point is we're liberal and see ourselves as a mod for adults, which is even more obvious with the Oblivion mod since you have to be 18 to even buy the game. Of course I realize people under 18 play the game anyways, but if killing people in a videogame doesn't phase them then sex is unlikely to either. On the off chance that it does, there's the other side of the point - that things shouldn't be forced on the player. If a sensitive player runs into a book with a cover like that I wager they're not stupid enough to open it.
11-07-2006, 10:26 AM
It is beautifully done.
In this country the portrayal of sexual intercourse between consenting adults is classified as pornography unless it is part of an approved educational format, any adult distributing such to a minor is taking a chance on being accused of something like 'sexual grooming' and that can carry a very hefty prison sentance... and there are International Treaties that cover distribution of such material from overseas.
Our laws are sadly tightening up further, but are still liberal compared with the laws in other parts of the world that cover such topics.
The minors in our community could easily find themselves locked out by their parents and local autorities if this were discovered. And if that happened then 'ginger groups' pushing for tougher laws might publish and distribute knowledge of this and we might them find that our members all over the globe who use school facilities to work on our projects are spidered out.
We all know this. We cannot responsibly ignore it. Personally I do not want to be arrested because some overzealous officer of the law or child protection officer got the wrong idea.
The cover is about as far as this can safely go. And it should be the exception rather than the rule so long as we have people under the age of consent in EVERY country where we have contributors on our staff.
If you think this is not that serious and you want to make a point, then please consider that if a parent decides that it is ok for his/her child to publish pornographic material, the parent can be arrested in certain Western countries, and the child removed permanently from the parent's care.
Stuff like this should be dealt with in the Core, not on the public forum, and it is an editor's and moderator's responsibility to ensure that the law of all of the various nations from which we draw our membership is observed.
Rw
In the UK the game is rated 16+ which is advisory.
Sex and kiling are seen differently in different countries - there is no one consistent pattern - but the current UK Government is rather erratic and irresponsible where such matters are concerned, and there are a lot of extreme measures and actions in the Courts.
As I understand it the Courts here see it as our duty to ensure that minors are denied access. And they will only consider the sensitive or otherwise nature of the minor when sentancing. Believe me, if an activist group decides that you are distributing pornographic material to minors they will spend any amout of money and resources to arrest, convict and imprison you. Such groups will not see you as liberal.
If this mod is listed as Adult then we should have NO minors here. Maybe it is time to take another look at that listing, and ask ourselves whether we are doing this to provide people of all ages with the chance to design an expansion for a great video game suitable fo rall ages or to prove a philosophical point?
In this country the portrayal of sexual intercourse between consenting adults is classified as pornography unless it is part of an approved educational format, any adult distributing such to a minor is taking a chance on being accused of something like 'sexual grooming' and that can carry a very hefty prison sentance... and there are International Treaties that cover distribution of such material from overseas.
Our laws are sadly tightening up further, but are still liberal compared with the laws in other parts of the world that cover such topics.
The minors in our community could easily find themselves locked out by their parents and local autorities if this were discovered. And if that happened then 'ginger groups' pushing for tougher laws might publish and distribute knowledge of this and we might them find that our members all over the globe who use school facilities to work on our projects are spidered out.
We all know this. We cannot responsibly ignore it. Personally I do not want to be arrested because some overzealous officer of the law or child protection officer got the wrong idea.
The cover is about as far as this can safely go. And it should be the exception rather than the rule so long as we have people under the age of consent in EVERY country where we have contributors on our staff.
If you think this is not that serious and you want to make a point, then please consider that if a parent decides that it is ok for his/her child to publish pornographic material, the parent can be arrested in certain Western countries, and the child removed permanently from the parent's care.
Stuff like this should be dealt with in the Core, not on the public forum, and it is an editor's and moderator's responsibility to ensure that the law of all of the various nations from which we draw our membership is observed.
Rw
In the UK the game is rated 16+ which is advisory.
Sex and kiling are seen differently in different countries - there is no one consistent pattern - but the current UK Government is rather erratic and irresponsible where such matters are concerned, and there are a lot of extreme measures and actions in the Courts.
As I understand it the Courts here see it as our duty to ensure that minors are denied access. And they will only consider the sensitive or otherwise nature of the minor when sentancing. Believe me, if an activist group decides that you are distributing pornographic material to minors they will spend any amout of money and resources to arrest, convict and imprison you. Such groups will not see you as liberal.
If this mod is listed as Adult then we should have NO minors here. Maybe it is time to take another look at that listing, and ask ourselves whether we are doing this to provide people of all ages with the chance to design an expansion for a great video game suitable fo rall ages or to prove a philosophical point?
11-07-2006, 01:10 PM
2 things:
1. I don't know about other countries, but I don't think anyone will care about the book. In Morrowind, the Better Bodies mod released completely nude bodies, and there were never any big issues on that. However, they also released an underwear version as well, so like that there could be a teen rated Silgrad as well as a mature rated Silgrad. Even Oblivion had nudity hidden in it.
2. I don't know about other countries, but I don't think anyone would care about the book in any legal affairs. It's just too small of a deal here, and no one would care. There was no issue with the release of the origional pillow book mod.
I think we should now close this thread and leave the decision to the core.
1. I don't know about other countries, but I don't think anyone will care about the book. In Morrowind, the Better Bodies mod released completely nude bodies, and there were never any big issues on that. However, they also released an underwear version as well, so like that there could be a teen rated Silgrad as well as a mature rated Silgrad. Even Oblivion had nudity hidden in it.
2. I don't know about other countries, but I don't think anyone would care about the book in any legal affairs. It's just too small of a deal here, and no one would care. There was no issue with the release of the origional pillow book mod.
I think we should now close this thread and leave the decision to the core.
11-07-2006, 08:22 PM
Thank you I ate. The Core must make their own decisions, bu ti know what i must do. I note that your location is Ebbedin, Silgrad District, Morrowind - and maybe it is not such a big deal there. In other areas of the world, and wit other parents that is not the case.
When you are considering this kind of stuff you have to think about what will happen in other locations - where the laws, parents and heavily funded pressure groups would be only too happy to do something about it. Let's not give them an excuse eh?
While there are minors working on this web site, and permitted to be members we have to keep content suitable for minors, or risk prosecution. Given that we do have minors here, we cannot host pornographic material - and all talk of this being an adult mod is nonsense - and damaging to our reputation.
Prosecution is not something I want to take a chance on thank you. And I suspect that if many people's parents saw that kind of content then they might decide to take their computers away...
Any poor lawyer wold be able to make a case out of such a situation.
When I see people in trouble - esp through no fault of their own I decide if I can do something on my own terms to improve the situation - sometimes, perhaps at risk to my own life (don't try to hold me to that please.) But this is very simple - if you are elligble to log onto a porn site and wish to do so, feel free. But do not expect me to risk prosection for your or anyone's personal gratification if you or others are not.
Many parents and educational establishments do not make a big deal about such things because they do not want their youngsters to feel caged. We all know about our own versions of difficult stuff - we guess at what others go through. But past a certain point all that changes.
RPGs and computer gaes generally are already under attack by the imposition of excessive age limitations on sales - and most people do not need a big scandle. Do you?
When you are considering this kind of stuff you have to think about what will happen in other locations - where the laws, parents and heavily funded pressure groups would be only too happy to do something about it. Let's not give them an excuse eh?
While there are minors working on this web site, and permitted to be members we have to keep content suitable for minors, or risk prosecution. Given that we do have minors here, we cannot host pornographic material - and all talk of this being an adult mod is nonsense - and damaging to our reputation.
Prosecution is not something I want to take a chance on thank you. And I suspect that if many people's parents saw that kind of content then they might decide to take their computers away...
Any poor lawyer wold be able to make a case out of such a situation.
When I see people in trouble - esp through no fault of their own I decide if I can do something on my own terms to improve the situation - sometimes, perhaps at risk to my own life (don't try to hold me to that please.) But this is very simple - if you are elligble to log onto a porn site and wish to do so, feel free. But do not expect me to risk prosection for your or anyone's personal gratification if you or others are not.
Many parents and educational establishments do not make a big deal about such things because they do not want their youngsters to feel caged. We all know about our own versions of difficult stuff - we guess at what others go through. But past a certain point all that changes.
RPGs and computer gaes generally are already under attack by the imposition of excessive age limitations on sales - and most people do not need a big scandle. Do you?
11-07-2006, 08:26 PM
As raggidman said, I don't feel the risk isn't worth it. I wouldn't mind the cover, but using the inside of the book doesn't seem right. I mean, its a graphic replacer right? Generally people don't like it when they download a big mod and find that it adds in textures that they didn't know about.
Now, if you guys were bent on using the insides of the book, why not just include it as an optional add on? Just leave the book or w/e you want to use it blank like the current pillow book, and then stick up a download that replaces the textures, that way both sides are pleased.
Now, if you guys were bent on using the insides of the book, why not just include it as an optional add on? Just leave the book or w/e you want to use it blank like the current pillow book, and then stick up a download that replaces the textures, that way both sides are pleased.
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