Silgrad Tower from the Ashes

[1st]w[/1st]elcome to the Models' Reference thread where we (well, mostly Razorwing) try to present background and information for models from the TES3: Morrowind game we would like to remodel and use in Silgrad Tower: Oblivion and affiliated mods. What's here is resources (if you will) for modellers who for one reason or another can't view the models in the TES3 Construction Set - perhaps they've never played TES3, or played it a long time ago and don't have it installed at the moment. If you *do* have access to TES3's Construction Set it's a much better source for reference on these models than screenies ever will be. It's a moderated thread, so if you'd like to take a job on, kindly start a new thread in Visual Development

The flora list was updated on June 11th, 2006.




- Razorwing made an Ash Yam model on October 12th.
- Razorwing made a Stoneflower model on October 10th.
- Razorwing made a Corkbulb model on December 22nd 2005.
- Dairon made a Gold Kanet on January 6th 2006, later finalized by Razorwing in mid-March 2006.
- Dairon made Bungler's Bane, Luminous Russola and Violet Copricus on January 15th 2006. They are being worked on by Razorwing at the moment, as they were too high-poly.
- Razorwing made an Emperor Parasol on February 6th 2006.
- Razorwing made a Willow Flower on March 10th 2006.
- Razorwing presented Slough ferns and Holly bushes, and created Saltrice plants and Comberry bushes, on March 21st 2006.

:check: below = finished


[1st]t[/1st]his is a moderated thread with information and updates regarding our team's effort to bring back traditional TES III plants. Below you'll find screenshots of the TES III plant models as well as download links to 3ds example files. The example files include .NIF, .3DS and .MAX scenes (the latter works with v4.2 or later) of the model and the textures used originally. The idea is to make it easier to create original versions of these plants by viewing the meshes and textures. We're allowed to recreate plants (and other things) from previous Elder Scrolls games, but the original models and textures are Bethesda's assets and won't be reused as we don't like copyright infringement, especially not towards the company we all love. Even if we were, most of the models Bethesda created for Morrowind were optimized for the computers of their day, including jagged edges and fuzzy textures, and could do with a make-over in either case.


[1st]i[/1st]f you're as excited as we are about the prospect of bringing back the flora of the Morrowind Province for The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, there's lots of things you can do to help us make that happen. If you're up to modelling one of the plants, please start a new thread where the developments can be followed - hopefully ending with you posting your model. You don't have to claim anything, you're granted it automatically and if we should be so lucky to get two submissions for the same plant, we'll most probably use both and be happy that we're able to see more variety in that kind of plant.

If you're not into modelling, that doesn't preclude the possibility of you being able to help us. If you're good at making textures for example then feel free to go ahead and download an archive below and have a go at making a more advanced texture. A nice bonus would be if you're able to make additional bump, specular and parallax maps apart from the normal diffuse one. Please make them square and sized to a power of 2 (128x128, 256x256, 1024x1024 etc), as that enables them to be converted to the DDS format (which is great for any game that can use them).

If neither modelling nor texturing is your cup of tea, we are always open to pitches for bringing back plants made by the community for Morrowind. If you can post a cool plant you found that you'd like to see us use in Oblivion, we'd be happy to take a look at it. If so, don't post things like "John made this super flower, it's on the summit, you should check it out.", please post a zipped archive with NIFs + texture(s) and a screenshot and a reference to who made it.


The three varieties of Lichen all use the same 3 meshes.
Bungler's Bane and Hypha Facia as good as shares the same mesh.
Ampoule pods, being the immature state of the Draggle-tail plant, shares some textures.

I have no idea what's up with Muckspunge #7. It's said to use the textures "Tx_cropmuck_base_01.tga" and "Tx_cropmuck_rim_01.tga", which I couldn't find in my Morrowind directory. Puzzling.

Bethesda put together Bittergreen plants and Trama shrubs in the Construction Set by using a base model, from which tentacle-like branches stuck out. However Oblivion uses a system that generating plants and other things in the world, as opposed to hand-placing them, and if we can take advantage of that by creating a large set of these two plants assembled in 3D Studio Max as opposed to hand-placing them in the world I think that would save us all a lot of time. However if possible it would be a very nice extra to also have access to the component models in the CS, for those times (and for those modders) who want to take the time to set up a uniquely-looking plant.

For some reason there are two NIF source files each of the Chokeweed and Roobrush, which appear identical in all respects except that one (which I named 'a') has a buffer, which is missing in 'b'. They share the same filename but are found in different folders (o and f, I think) and have different file sizes. The max, 3ds and screenshot are in both cases of 'a'.



[title]Ampoule Pod :check:[/title]


[title]Ash Yam :check:[/title]


[title]Bittergreen[/title]


[title]Black Anther :check:[/title]


[title]Black Lichen :check:[/title]


[title]Bungler's Bane :check:[/title]


[title]Chokeweed[/title]


[title]Comberry :check:[/title]


[title]Corkbulb :check:[/title]


[title]Draggle-tail :check:[/title]


[title]Emperor Parasol :check:[/title]


[title]Fire Fern[/title]


[title]Gold Kanet :check:[/title]


[title]Green Lichen :check:[/title]


[title]Hackle-lo :check:[/title]


[title]Heather[/title]


[title]Hypha Facia :check:[/title]


[title]Kreshweed[/title]


[title]Luminous Russola :check:[/title]


[title]Marshmerrow :check:[/title]


[title]Muckspunge[/title]


[title]Red Lichen :check:[/title]


[title]Roobrush[/title]


[title]Saltrice :check:[/title]


[title]Scathecraw[/title]


[title]Slough Fern[/title]


[title]Stoneflower :check:[/title]


[title]Tramashrub[/title]


Tramashrub:

Tramaroot:

[title]Wickwheat :check:[/title]


[title]Willow Flower :check:[/title]


[title]Violet Coprinus :check:[/title]







[title]Tribunal Plants[/title]
[blockquote]No downloads available for flora from Morrowind expansion packs. The flora featured in Tribunal is meant to grow commonly on the mainland, and so would really be the most important one for Silgrad Tower: Oblivion, but I don't think I'm the only one who's more fond of Vvardenfell's flowers and plants.[/blockquote]

Horn Lily flora_plant_01 Scr
Grass-like leaves at the base, and three single-stemmed purple bell-shaped flowers.

Nirthfly Stalks flora_plant_02 Scr #1Scr #2
Large green leaves grow up along the single stem. The petals extend in a circle, and are yellow-and-orange and reminiscant of a burning fire. Does anyone know if the spelling is Nirthfly or Nightfly?

Timsa-Come-By flowers flora_plant_03 Scr
Very leafy and green, with four flowers in all shades of pink.

Meadow Rye flora_plant_04 Scr
Grass-like leaves at the base, and six tall and slender flowers which are grayish-turquoiseish in color.

Flowering Sweetbarrel flora_plant_05 Scr
A small, coneshaped cactus littered with spikes which of course is the flowering variety of the desert sweetbarrel. The flowers are green at the base, which gives way to yellow and finally red around the upper half.

Desert Sweetbarrel flora_plant_06 Scr
A small, coneshaped cactus littered with spikes with greenish bulbs at the top which are immature flowers. Note that Bethesda used a planar texture with opaque transparancy to show a vertical line of spikes, they aren't meshbased.

Scrib Cabbage flora_plant_07 Scr
Four concentric 'bowls' make up this foodstuff

Spiny Lloramor flora_plant_08 Scr
A very large green cactus, somewhat higher than an average man. From a bulging, cylindrical stem grows several fat growths, which reminds of a five-sided starshaped cylinder and ends in a greenbrown fruit.


[title]Bloodmoon Plants[/title]
[blockquote]No downloads available for flora from Morrowind expansion packs. The flora featured in Bloodmoon could certainly be used in the Blacklight area, Skyrim, or why not in the Dagon Fel archipelago - but that's up to those teams to decide.[/blockquote]

Belladonna Flora_BM_belladonna_01 - Flora_BM_belladonna_03 Scr
A small plant with fat, green leaves. Spiky, strangely-colored petals surround the berries. (Flora_BM_belladonna_01 and Flora_BM_belladonna_03 are probably the exact same model, while Flora_BM_belladonna_02 differ in both mesh and texture.)

Holly bush Flora_BM_holly_01 - Flora_BM_holly_05 Scr #1 Scr #2
A small, inconspicious tree littered with red berries (which are just retextured Belladonna berries).

Wolfsbane Flora_BM_wolfsbane_01 Scr #1 Scr #2
Drooping palmshaped leaves grow along the stem, and the flowers look clenched-up, giving the impression that the whole flower is withering. This plant only grew on one single place in Solstheim, and was part of a quest that let the player be cured of lycanthropy. Perhaps it grows more commonly on the mainland.

Gundalf has modelled replacements for all the Velothi columns.

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The purpose of this post is to describe the various Velothi column types Bethesda used when creating The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind in case they might inspire modellers. I've highlighted the two column models I personally feel are the most important ones.
A good source for applicable textures when modelling Dunmer stuff is "Morrowind Visual Pack".

The scale reference shot shows the three different sizes Bethesda used in TES3. The large set, to which the columns on the right belongs to, are by far the least used of the size variations. The most common is the small set, used for single-story halls and rooms, while the medium set is used for more grand locations.

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royalblue[/hr]


in_v_s_int_column_01
This unusual-looking column combines both wood and cement. It's only used in Vivec and probably represents civilian velothi architecture. The variation "in_v_s_int_lpillar_01" - which despite it's name isn't large - is in the construction set but was never used by Bethesda.

in_velothismall_column_01
This is without a doubt the most common velothi column of them all, and one that as good as all players recognize with ease.

in_velothismall_column_02
This is just a quarter-piece of in_velothismall_column_01 and not featured in the display.

in_velothismall_column_03
This specialized variation on in_velothismall_column_01 is used to support in_velothismall_pit_02 platforms in velothi domes.


in_v_s_int_lcolumn_01
This slender column is mostly found in Vivec, but also in a number of grand tombs.

in_v_s_int_lcolumn_02
Almost exclusively used in Velothi shrines (places of daedra worship sanctioned by the Temple), but was also used in one (1) tomb rather inventively (reference).

in_v_s_int_lcolumn_03
Almost exclusively used in tombs.


in_v_l_int_column_01
This large and grand column is only found in tombs, where it's used with the medium-sized "in_v_s_int_l" velothi tileset. It's fairly common.

in_v_l_int_column_02 + 03
Whether used together or as separate pieces, these models create the impression of being a broken in_v_l_int_column_01.


in_v_l_int_lcolumn_01
These gargantuan columns are often used with, and intended for, the superhuge Velothi tileset (in_v_l_int_l). But often enough they are also used in the smaller velothi tilesets, where only a part of the model is shown, conveying a sense of grandeur.

in_v_l_int_lcolumn_02 + 03
Similar to above, whether used together or as separate pieces, these models create the impression of being a broken in_v_l_int_lcolumn_01.

The purpose of this post is to describe the various light types Bethesda used when creating The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind in case they might inspire modellers. Modelling them back into the Construction Set would help modders add more Morrowind touches to our locations - but naturally, some are more useful than others, which is why I've added a little Importance meter for the entries. The Importance is from Silgrad Tower: Oblivion's viewpoint.

A good source for applicable textures when modelling Dunmer stuff is "Morrowind Visual Pack" and other texture replacers. Just google texture replacer morrowind and you'll find a bunch to choose from.

Don't worry, for those lights that use them in the screenies below, there's absolutely no need to model particle effects (unless you happen to know how). There'll almost certainly be "naked flame"-type of lights in Oblivion as there were in Morrowind, and those can be combined with a modelled light in the CS to give the impression the light is lit. As flames seem to have special effects in the new game, such as being able to set things and people on fire, letting the game handle flames might actually be better in either case.

While it's important to stick with Bethesda's design in order to achieve that wonderful sense of deja vu, one shouldn't mistake Bethesda's heavy optimization for concious design choices. One of many examples is Candle #1; the base isn't supposed to be octagonal, it's supposed to be round, and should be modelled that way. The handle on Lantern #2 shouldn't have just four joints, it should be much smoother. And so on.

If you are able to use Morrowind's Construction Set to view the models you should definitely do that rather than the pictures below. Press the "w" key on your keyboard to see in wireframe mode which makes it easier to see how it was modelled.

If you're not interested in modelling a light, for whichever reason, but still feel like pitching in on this then it would be highly useful to have .3ds reference meshes of these objects. So if you can import them into max and export them to .3ds and zip them up and post them, that would be great.

I didn't include dwemer lights. Dwemer have been in every TES game so far and may very well be a yet-to-revealed secret in Oblivion as well. If so, those lights will already be covered.

There's no "claiming"; if more than one version of a Bethesda light model is made we can use both. The core would decide which of the alternatives would be used as the main one, while the other one would be used for variety.

I made a point of only including differing light meshes instead of all the many, many texture and color variations Bethesda uses. They seem to favor white, red, blue, green, purple, and black color variations. Whether you make variations or not is up to you.
There is one model per screenshot, but some are visualized more in the same screenshot than others.

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Candles: #1 | #2 | #3 | #4 | #5 | #6 | #7
Lamps: Buglamp | Redware lamp | Floorlamp
Lanterns: #1 | #2 | #3 | #4 | #5 | #6 | #7
Importance: ? ? ? ? ?
These common Dunmer household items are things you're likely to find in pretty much every home, and without a doubt the most important lights of all to bring back.


#1A | #1B | #2 | #3A | #3B | #4
Importance: ? ?
Mostly used in Imperial locations, but they wouldn't look out of place in for instance a Hlaalu home. I think #2 and #4 were used in non-domestic locations. They're not the most important light types to bring back.

Normal torch
Sconce #1 | Sconce #2
Tikilamp | Tikitorch
Importance: ? ? ?
These lights were a common sights in tombs, dungeons, mines and other Dunmer places in TES3. The normal torch was used everywhere though (particularly in Imperial locations). Sconce #1 may look Imperial but it was almost only used in Dunmer places, especially tombs.

Velothi Brazier
Importance: ? ? ? ? ?
This familiar brazier is the default light type for Velothi tombs and temples, and as such it's incredibly common in TES3 and will hopefully be just as common in Silgrad Tower: Oblivion.

Ashlander Lantern
Importance: ?
A paper lantern in ashlander design. There are no ashlanders in Silgrad Tower.

Indoril Streetlamp
Importance: ? ?
These streetlights were a familiar sight around Mournhold, a city which was the focus of the Tribunal expansion pack for The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind. While that isn't an issue for Silgrad Tower: Oblivion, Indoril design isn't very far from Velothi, and a streetlamp modelled like this could concievably be used for urban Velothi locations. Especially considering its intrinsic beauty.

Old Mournhold: Brazier | Censure
Importance: ?
The 'Old Mournhold' style is the same as ancient Indoril, and was seen in the ruins beneath present-day Mournhold. It's not an issue for Silgrad Tower: Oblivion.

Sixth House / House Dagoth: Brazier | Candle
Importance: ? ? ?
Through the course of TES III's main quest the player destroyed the Sixth House -- but he didn't annihilate every single follower or eradicate all traces of their presence. There would still be evidence of this ancient, evil House today, perhaps especially in our area since the player never got to it through the standard game. Modding and playing Sixth House-related adventures again would be pretty cool, and these lights would go a part of the way towards making that happen.


Daedric Brazier | Censer
Importance: ? ?
It goes without saying that Oblivion will have Daedric lights. However as Bethesda likes to reinvent themselves, those lights will probably not look like this, meaning these designs can be used for native Dunmer Daedra worshippers. Apart from giving the player something fresh to look at, it would convey a sense of familiarity. But having said that they are one of the least important light types to bring back.

Skullspear Candle
Importance: ? ? ?
This odd-looking candle can be found in tombs and temples - the Dunmer have a peculiar way to look at remains - but also in evil and necromantic places.

The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind had two basic categories of Dunmer furniture; (p)oor and ®ich. The poor furniture is wobbly, basic, and rugged-looking, while the rich furniture is polished and luxurious with ornate details. There are a few furnishings outside the categories, like the practice mat fighters and guards train on, but even those that aren't specifically Imperial are used generally over the game and can't really be called a part of Dunmer culture.

Bethesda often have several versions of a furniture type, like the five (p)oor tables. It would be quite nice to have every single piece back - and then some! But when it boils down to it, what we really need is one of each brought back.

Don't mistake Bethesda's heavy optimization for conscious design choices; they created them for a game that could run on low-end systems four years ago. For instance the seat on "furn_de_p_stool_01" isn't meant to have ten corners, it's meant to be round, which in this day and age is something we can afford to represent.

Hoss has created a few Dunmer-inspired furnishings like these, though they haven't been submitted yet (and so aren't listed in the model showcase just yet). That shouldn't stop anyone though, the more there are to choose from the better variety we can give the player.

Note that "furn_de_p_bench_03" is just a longer version of the"furn_de_p_bench_04" mesh, as is "furn_de_r_bench_01" a longer version of "furn_de_r_bench_02". Also, "furn_de_r_winerack" only differ from "Furn_De_rm_Winerack" in texture, as the two models share the same mesh. I've included wireframe reference pictures for the models, which are more useful for tracing the mesh than the normal pictures.



Benches: #1 #1 wf | #2 #2 wf
Bookshelf: #1 #1 wf
Chairs: #1 #1 wf | #2 #2 wf
Stools: #1 #1 wf | #2 #2 wf
Shelf: #1 #1 wf
Tables: #1 #1 wf | #2 #2 wf | #3 #3 wf | #4 #4 wf | #5 #5 wf


Benches: #1 #1 wf | #2 #2 wf
Bookshelf: #1 #1 wf
Chair: #1 #1 wf
Shelf: #1 #1 wf
Tables: #1 #1 wf | #2 #2 wf | #3 #3 wf | #4 #4 wf
Wineracks: #1 #1 wf | #2 #2 wf

This thread has served it's purpose for some time now, but back when I wrote these posts no one could have guessed that we'd have an awesome utility like NifSkope available, and so soon too. I've been leering over all the content our team added to the old mod, and I would like nothing more than to bring all of it over to the current mod. But to say it bluntly there's quite a list of modelling matters of more dire importance I need to look at first.

Sooo I guess the point of this post is to see if there's anyone else in the team who could take a look at it? We're on the verge of getting a TES4 Plugin Utility with a working merge-to-master function, and once we have that there's no problem in making plugins dependant on a main Reich Parkeep .esm, meaning every plugin made after that can have access to the content of the main file. So, tucking stuff in there means you'd get to mod with it in future plugins you create, and if you'd like I'm sure we could talk about exclusive use - i.e. that we'd guarantee the model could only be seen in your interior.

Anyone like modding crypts? We've got a full crypt tileset + placeables like coffins and funeral urns in the old mod, and they should be fairly straightforward to bring in. You could bring them in in the form of a plugin and we could make a crypt near the cemetary

Well, that's just some ideas - if you've got NifSkope and grab our TES3 mod from the download page I'm sure you could go hunting on your own to find cool stuff you want to use. There's tons of it in the old mod.

*crosses fingers*