First off, I am putting this thread here since I am not sure where else to place it. Having said that, I may possibly have found at least part of a solution to this issue, and maybe even the cause of it. Here is what I have done so far:
- I found a door in Seniosh's "Join the Morag Tong" quest that displayed all of the symptoms of a classic "Door does not work" issue where I could open the console, click on the door, and type activate player to get it to open but it would not work otherwise. Does not matter if I walked to the dungeon or used the console to get there.
I made a save game at that point so I could just pop in quickly while I was troubleshooting the issue.
I discovered that opening the esp file in the editor and then just clicking on the save button without making any changes allows the door to work when I reload the game.
Reloading the game with the original esp file prevents the door from working.
I tried re-DLing the file Seniosh sent me but ended up with the same results of the original file DLed.
I tried using both the SI and non-SI versions of Oblivion both when running the game and when opening and saving the esp file. The result always ended up with the door working in the new save and not working in the original esp that Seniosh sent. I have a further feeling that doors that are up against collision may be being blocked by that collision but haven't had a chance to fully test this yet.
When I've playtested dungeons and interiors in the past, I noticed that changing the order in which doors are loaded (either by deleting and replacing, or possibly by making other changes to them) can change which doors have the problem. Usually, there was always at least one door with that problem in my interiors. Have you looked around to see if there are other doors that no longer work?
Quote:Originally posted by TheImperialDragon
When I've playtested dungeons and interiors in the past, I noticed that changing the order in which doors are loaded (either by deleting and replacing, or possibly by making other changes to them) can change which doors have the problem. Usually, there was always at least one door with that problem in my interiors. Have you looked around to see if there are other doors that no longer work?
OK, that is just too freaky. You were right TID, one of the other doors stopped working. I didn't even think to check on that when I got the first one working. Thanks for the input. I guess that my "solution" has something to do with how the CS loads, saves, and organizes the esp files.
I will keep playing with it though until I come up with a reasonable answer that makes them all work.
Interesting.
Quote:Originally posted by ShadowDancer
I guess that my "solution" has something to do with how the CS loads, saves, and organizes the esp files.
Also keep in mind that after a merge to an esm the FormID's change, so it prob. affects the 'working' of the doors as well.
I think I have just stumbled across the reason for it completely. Its the block order on the collision on the doors used - or at least, it is in Seniosh's "Join the Morag Tong" quest. I just ran through the whole dungeon twice without a single door problem, even when I used the console to go to the dungeon entrance which also worked fine. The first pic shows the order as it exists in the nif file, the second shows what it should be.
I attached the nif file I modified. If you change the name on the existing one and then put this in its place, it should take care of any door issues for this door if anyone wants to test it out.
Here are the changes in the nif file:
Continuing this line of investigation, I also found that fixing the block order in the nifs of items makes them appear properly in-game. There were some items in the Morag Tong that would not show up properly (wouldn't have a name, were difficult to grab) such as one of the Green Dunmer Goblets, a Graija bottle, and Redoran Krushka Beer (though this last one showed up, but nothing right next to it seemed to until it was moved).
On the bright side, it is simple to fix the nifs using Spells > Sanitize > Reorder Blocks in nifskope.
Nice find ShadowDancer, I would not have guessed that was the cause of the problems :goodjob: I suppose I'd better reorder the blocks of my old models in the near future then
Not that long ago I learnt a tip from Phitt that it's both a good idea to add NiVertexColorProperty nodes to blocks that have vertex painting as well as to toggle off vertex colors for blocks that don't have it. (When you export a model with any vertex color on it from 3D Studio Max, all the mesh pieces gets vertex color info which isn't optimal; meanwhile NiVertexColorProperty nodes keep the model from causing bugs on certain video cards and might have other uses too) I did that on the door model version I attached.
Quote:Originally posted by Razorwing
Nice find ShadowDancer, I would not have guessed that was the cause of the problems :goodjob: I suppose I'd better reorder the blocks of my old models in the near future then
Not that long ago I learnt a tip from Phitt that it's both a good idea to add NiVertexColorProperty nodes to blocks that have vertex painting as well as to toggle off vertex colors for blocks that don't have it. (When you export a model with any vertex color on it from 3D Studio Max, all the mesh pieces gets vertex color info which isn't optimal; meanwhile NiVertexColorProperty nodes keep the model from causing bugs on certain video cards and might have other uses too) I did that on the door model version I attached.
It took me a while to figure that one out. I just happened to look at the right spot at the right time to notice the bhkCollisionObject had the wrong numbering for the block - its actually reversed from what it should be and there are apparently a number of items with the same issue. I was pretty sure it had to do with the collision in some manner from everything that I had read, seen in-game, and from what Seniosh sent me. I have been working on it for a couple days now and thought I had figured it out until TID made me realize that I hadn't taken the save function's reordering of the esp file into account. I was actually wondering about where the center of the model was when I noticed it.
Thats interesting. How can you tell if a block has vertex painting? I didn't see anything obvious looking through the nif you attached. I just went with what Seniosh used in the dungeon and the nif extracted from the BSA file. But since I am updating my light nifs anyway, I might as well do that before I post them again.
I had had the same issue as ShadowDancer but my method was to simply first save a game near the door I want "unlocked" and then loading the game, I think game loads objects first near player. :confused:
Though I don't still understand anything you say about nifs, blocks and polys, it sounds like you found the answer
Excellent, i'd been wondering about those several items for a while now. Doors, of course, are crucial.
Hopefully this solves it, and the models for the doors and such can be updated. Thanks ShadowDancer (and the guys who make nifskope!), It'd be no good if people playing Silgrad Tower had to COC themselves into cells, or use "activate player"