01-17-2006, 08:10 PM
Razorwing sent me a fascinating pm today explaining the famous 'mara' had given him permission to re-post some comments she made on race relations, and then further to turn them into a Silgrad Book! So now I have the honour of the task? K k k...
Gonna do it all before your very eyes, step by step, and comments are invited. Also contributors. See this thread: Can you roleplay the Goddess Mara?
Need to try to work a more 'ancient/eternal' aspect into the Mara viewpoint - including 'a bit of plausible history.'
Important note to self: remember that the essence of ES is that everthing appears to contradict itself because it all comes from different viewpoints, so just try to pin down the contradictions and use that energy to power new thought and observation.
[editing in ideas in green]
thoughts and new angles/ideas coloured blue
The original statement first:
Then the shared thoughts on how to proceed:
A quick consultation with Mara produced this:
Got you wondering? Righto, I'll fetch the bits to fill in the blanks, make a start, then I have other duties to attend - more tomorrow.
So the day after tomorrow I am thinking it might be more fun to use (the Goddess) Mara's viewpoint as the main text =sugary sweet (not sure how good I am at sweet), and use the original as ascerbic, sub-textual commentary by Plitinus Mero, maybe in a who do you think you are kidding vein
But maybe I should keep Plitinus as a factual commentator, and use that 3rd personality that Razorwing suggested as the who do you think you are kidding contributor? Perhaps a scholar or/rival/discoverer of an older, obscure document by the famous author, eager to make a fool of him, or refute the view he has presented?
Grrr, this sweetness and light thing is starting to get on my craw. If I have to say one more nice thing today I will explode - bout time I started the hatchet job. And I think the third character will have to rag both Mara and Plitinus Mero - maybe this is a job for the expert, dwemer lizard?
So is this to be simply a book?
Is it better kept simple or as a wrangle for intellectual dominance rivalling the described race relations?
Would anyone like to present their own favorite race's self-view in refutation of any of the views presented here? To be added in as commentary
Is it possible that there is a location somewhere, perhaps a high cliff, peak or mountain called 'Mara's View that might contain (name those treasures) and a copy of this lost book.
Or could the book lead to the place/treasure?
If you see another totally different way to approach this, don't be shy! Post it up. Any feelings you have about how the 'Mother's' Dialogue should be portrayed... Etc... bung em in.
Ere, wait a minute, this is going way past simple edditin. Maybe I need someone to edit me?
Gonna do it all before your very eyes, step by step, and comments are invited. Also contributors. See this thread: Can you roleplay the Goddess Mara?
Need to try to work a more 'ancient/eternal' aspect into the Mara viewpoint - including 'a bit of plausible history.'
Important note to self: remember that the essence of ES is that everthing appears to contradict itself because it all comes from different viewpoints, so just try to pin down the contradictions and use that energy to power new thought and observation.
[editing in ideas in green]
thoughts and new angles/ideas coloured blue
The original statement first:
Quote:...[edit in title extension: Mara's View Being based on the original research and scholarship of one Plitinus Mero ? century ? of the court of ? some such attribution
This brief treatease is said to be based on a communication arranged on his behalf with the 'mother' herself, through the intercession of Her loving and faithful Priest ......
My darling children are forever vying and struggling amongst themselves. Each one tries to say that he , or she is the most delightful and excellent. As if I would choose one above the other? For I love and cherish all my children. And I see that they need to strive in order to grow.Just make everyone hate everyone else and you won't be too far wrong.... *a) **1 :lmao: hey I am trying the diplomatic route first to see how it feels...
1) High elves look down on everyone else, but pity them more than hate them. Think Greeks to the Romans. The culturally superior people got conquered by louts (Cyrodiil who are a cross between Romans and the English of the Empire).
The Tallest of my children, the High Elves who have made their home in Somerset Isle, are truly proud of the beautiful and elegant society that they have created. Secure in the knowledge of their achievements, they hold out a helping hand to their younger and smaller kin, ever willing to uplift those who show the humbleness of spirit that is at the heart of true learning.
*b)Plitinus Mero
**2 insert name
2) Dark elves think of the beast peoples (Khajiiti and Argonians) as inferior to elves and humans. They believe they know the one true way to live (and die) and view others as outsiders. Try a cross between Jews (for their history) and Indians (of British colonial India) for their present situation.
The Dark Elves of Morrowind became lost to me long ago. Many the tear I have shed for their plight....to be continued
3) Wood elves think other races are good -- to eat.
Ah, my tiniest ones, the hungry eaters who fed longest at my breasts, and who would be there still had I not weaned them to the warm embrace of their jungles, teaming with life and the excitement of the hunt.
4) Bretons are intelligent and individualistic. They have ancient rivalries with the other human races but I doubt they actually hate anyone except orcs.
Looking at this I have to resolve an inconsistency: England and France may not always have hated one another, but there was a period when that was so - during the hundred years war (exclusively Eng and Fr about 600 yrs ago?) and the Napoleonics when the French fought everyone in Europe. Now we look at the Redguard entry and it seems that they are involved in a major hate campaign with the Bretons, but the Bretons do not hate anyone??? There is an ara in france called Bretony, they call themselves Bretons, but 'magic' is really a more Anglo-Saxon thing than a French thing...Have to try for a slightly differrent Angle?
5) Nords are well organized but really not that smart. They don't hate anyone which doesn't stop them from warring with them since they enjoy a good war. They were an aggressive and expansionist people and were prone to genocide along the lines of European colonists (and the Borg): assimilate or die.
What can I do with these loud and fractious younglings. They sing like angels, but I spend more time binding their hurts, and the hurts they cause, than with all the others combined. If only they did not feel the need to prove that they are stronger than everyone else...
6) Redguards are survivors who fled their old country and found themselves in a new and harsh environment. They fight with the Bretons, more or less like England and France.
My Redguards have survived where others have fallen, but I do so wish that they would be more tolerant of those who are not as sturdy as they are. Perhaps in time they will come to appreciate their neighbours', the Bretons, better qualities and put aside their impulsive jealousies.
7) Cyrodiils: think Roman or English empire. They don't hate anyone, they just want to exploit everyone through trade on terms favorable to themselves.
These most industrious and persuasive of children puzzle me. They prefer to talk things through, which pleases me, rather than resorting to violence, so why are they forever fighting others? Perhaps one of my fellow deities can better explain this.
8) Khajitti: natural stealth predators with an ancient rivalry with the Bosmer (they view each other as dinner) and a fear of the slave raiding Dunmer. It's believed that they were once Bosmer but have gone even more feral than the wood elves.
Ah, the darling kittens. They are so precocious, ferocious, altogether lovable. Perhaps one day you will learn the truth of their origins. You may be surprised, but that is in their nature. Think, where else were such wonderful predators found?
9) Argonians prefer to live deep in their swamps so little is known of their native culture. However they are highly intelligent and physically strong and agile and capable of viewing the world with detachment and objectivity. Btw my personal theory is that they evolved from crocodiles, who are social and waterloving and care for their young, not lizards.
Detachment and objectivity add philosophical - love of truth and knowledge = wisdom = Love the Crododile angle - but what of the deep connection to special trees in the Argonian Lore. More research...
10) Orcs. Hate everyone but they respect strength. Klingons? Welcome to the Empire, guys. ...
What about the Orc King in Daggerfall? Was he lying when he said that orc society is actually very sophisticated, and they desired peace? It seems to me that the nature of the orc encampment in the wastelands was something on the order of a holdout from earlier orc invasion, or a new semi-military venture in the face of the threat from the Blight - hence the spies in the camp - and might be atypical of current orc culture. Also the Orcs at the shrine on the island might be renegades. Maybe I will have to do some more research here too...
Addenda
*a) Plitinus MeroThe causes for racial tensions have always been varied and complex. Mara's View demonstrates an insight that is unique...
**1 ...insert name... truly just assume that the races all hate each other, and ....
*b) Plitinus Mero: The High Elves are not only the physically tallest of the races of Tamriel, they also have an ancient and rich cultural heritage, recognised as such throughout Tamriel, and are seen as natural leaders in matters artistic within the Empire. Indeed, ...
**2 insert name Ah, really, Plitinus, I expect better from you than that. For once in your writings can't you just call a ..insert animal name.. a ..insert animal name.. The High Elves look down on everone else, they feel so sorry for them they can't even get up the energy to hate them. And talk about martyrs, they're always going on about how the humans are a bunch of barbarians who the High Elves had to teach how to tie up their own bootlaces.
Then the shared thoughts on how to proceed:
Quote:...From: raggidman
Date: 17.01.2006 11:28
To: Razorwing
Subject: 'Race Relations in Tamriel'
Sounds good to me - I'll get to work on this - a strong first contribution if I can get the right angle for it.
And please Post away - once it is there I can use that space to work, and people can see my style, and get a feel for what I do. I feel that you want me to clip the FAQ version and transform the 'book version' and that is the basis on which I will proced.
Hows about calling the FaQ 'Mara's View? Would that be an appropriate title for the 'book?' Also the nature of the author would be: goddess, scholar, adviser to someone important? When was it written and for and to whom...lots shall I consider also...
...
A quick consultation with Mara produced this:
Quote:...Message from Razorwing, on 17.01.2006 12:44
RE: 'Race Relations in Tamriel'
Hi!
Sounds great! I went ahead and posted the original article on the Faq board. I thought a copy of the article could remain unaltered on the Faq board, because I imagine the real-world references can be useful to modders to get a better understanding of the races' mindset. But they couldn't be in the in-game book, which I was hoping you could adapt and publish on the Fan Fiction board.
I talked with her about which in-game credit she would like and she mentioned that she'd like the imaginary Elder Scrolls author of it to be "Plitinius Mero", whom she used for King Edward. If you have an avatar scribe like that then I don't see why him or her couldn't be involved in the book as well - for instance he could have attended a seminar held by "Plitinius Mero" and used his lecture as the foundation for his book?
...
Got you wondering? Righto, I'll fetch the bits to fill in the blanks, make a start, then I have other duties to attend - more tomorrow.
So the day after tomorrow I am thinking it might be more fun to use (the Goddess) Mara's viewpoint as the main text =sugary sweet (not sure how good I am at sweet), and use the original as ascerbic, sub-textual commentary by Plitinus Mero, maybe in a who do you think you are kidding vein
But maybe I should keep Plitinus as a factual commentator, and use that 3rd personality that Razorwing suggested as the who do you think you are kidding contributor? Perhaps a scholar or/rival/discoverer of an older, obscure document by the famous author, eager to make a fool of him, or refute the view he has presented?
Grrr, this sweetness and light thing is starting to get on my craw. If I have to say one more nice thing today I will explode - bout time I started the hatchet job. And I think the third character will have to rag both Mara and Plitinus Mero - maybe this is a job for the expert, dwemer lizard?
So is this to be simply a book?
Is it better kept simple or as a wrangle for intellectual dominance rivalling the described race relations?
Would anyone like to present their own favorite race's self-view in refutation of any of the views presented here? To be added in as commentary
Is it possible that there is a location somewhere, perhaps a high cliff, peak or mountain called 'Mara's View that might contain (name those treasures) and a copy of this lost book.
Or could the book lead to the place/treasure?
If you see another totally different way to approach this, don't be shy! Post it up. Any feelings you have about how the 'Mother's' Dialogue should be portrayed... Etc... bung em in.
Ere, wait a minute, this is going way past simple edditin. Maybe I need someone to edit me?
