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I tried to post this in the Silgrad Lore forums, but they are apparently restricted to certin users. So, here it goes! Tongue

I am wondering about Dunmer traditions in general, along with a few specific facets of Dunmer culture.

Firstly: Marriage traditions. More specifically, when a Dunmer man and woman are married, does the woman take on the man's name, does the man take on the woman's name, or do their last names remain entirely independent?

Secondly: Is it possible that a Dunmer from a Redoran family could be good friends with a Dunmer from a Hlaalu or Telvanni family? I know that the answer is likely yes, as all men, mer and beast races retain a free will, but I just thought I'd clarify.

Thirdly: Where do each of the family branches fall in terms of economic status? I know that generally Hlaalu are the politicians, the lawmakers, the bureaucrats etc, the Redoran are the warriors, peacekeepers and craftsmen, and the Telvanni are the... well, they mainly just stick to magic.

I also would like to know the likelihood of a member of a certain family branch breaking their set traditions. For example, a Hlaalu Dunmer becoming a craftsman and living out in a rural area amongst other craftsmen. Again, I know that free will is a factor, I just wanted to know how common this might be.

Anyways, some more questions will likely crop up about the Dunmer sooner or later, so I'll post them here when they come.

Cya guys! Wink
~Zach
1. I don't think it's known, so for pragmatic reasons let's say they take on the man's last name.

2. No. Redorans and Hlaalu hate each other. Redoran only dislikes Telvanni, but that doesn't help since Telvanni hate everyone who isn't Telvanni. They're rather xenophobic. Redoran get along well with Indoril, and Hlaalu get along well with Dres . Hlaalu and Dres get along well with the Empire, Indoril is pretty neutral, Redoran dislikes them, and Telvanni of course hate them. I'm writing this off the top of my head, but that's how I recall the faction reactions. Also it's in Oblivion's timeline; Dres changed quite dramatically between Morrowind and Oblivion.

Not all Dunmer belong to Great Houses though and there's nothing to stop an unaffiliated Dunmer from being friends with anyone from a Great House, except of course if that Great House is Telvanni.

3. Hlaalu are the wealthiest overall, due to the profits generated by their trade with the Empire and due to controlling so many large cities in Morrowind and thereby getting taxation. Redoran is less wealthy overall, but there are still rich Redorans, just probably not as many as there are Hlaalu. Telvanni, well, I would say they're a special case because their society is so anarchistic that wealth varies a great deal from person to person. (These are my opinions and may or may not be facts Tongue)

4. Not sure exactly what you mean, but if a Hlaalu craftsman moved to the farmland I would imagine House Hlaalu would see him as a traitor, his neighbours would be untrusting towards him, and he would likely earn much less money than if he had lived in a city among his own kind. I know it's fun to make exceptions to rules, but I also think it adds to the overall fun if we can strengthen the animosity between Hlaalu and Redoran whenever there's a chance. There's a lot of venues for quest ideas in that conflict. Smile
Well, my idea IS to strengthen the animosity between Hlaalu and Redoran, or rather, to show how much animosity there is.

You see, the reason I wanted to take up two house claims right next to eachother was at first just to make two neighbors that interact and what- not. Then an idea sparked in my head: The one neighbor is married, the other is not. The unmaried neighbor is not self-sufficient, while the married neighbor is (the married one is a potter, and he generates a decent income from his ceramic wares.)

I think that it would be interesting if the unmaried neighbor -- who is named Mindvus Uvaram, by the way (can't remember if that is Hlaalu or Redoran) -- can't afford to live on his own because no one in the region will purchase his wares, him being a Hlaalu and all.

So Uvaram has been forced to live like a leech off of the only person who will trust him -- the rather accepting Redoran potter(and neighbor), who's name is Savvas Indarys by the way.

It could become quite an interesting quest that displays how hostile the Redoran and Hlaalu are with eachother. Of course, all sorts of deceit and backstabbing will be involved... maybe even a bit of adultery while Indarys is transporting some ceramic wares to Soluthis... muahahahahahaha!! :evil:

If this is too far out there, though, I can just make them two simple Redoran craftsmen who live next to eachother and share a cup of tea. Tongue
Sounds like an interesting setup, and I'm a sucker for new quests being added, so... :goodjob:

It's a bit out there, but only in the sense that it sounds complicated for you to mod the quest. How do you plan the quest to break down, if I may ask? I.e., how will it play out?

Both Uvaram and Indarys are family names of the Redoran 'clan'. A few Hlaalu surnames are Orethi, Balen, Arenim, Salen and Rathri. I got the generator surnames from character names in TES III: Morrowind and ordered them after House affiliation.
Okay, so for convenience we will call him Mindvus Arethi. I'll change his name later.

So, the way the quest plays out is this:

1. A. The player comes across Indarys and his neighbor Arethi by chance, just by exploring and discovering their neighboring homes.

B. Alternatively, the player can also hear a rumor in Soluthis, for example: "Word is that Savvas Indarys, a local potter, has taken a stray Hlaalu under his wing and helped him build a home neighboring his own in the Farmlands. Could turn out to be detrimental to Savvas's business here in Soluthis."

If route A is taken, the player will have to talk to either Mindvus or Savvas, upon which a greeting will be triggered along the lines of: I'm (Savvas Indarys -OR- Mindvus Arethi.) And yes, (I'm supporting a member if house Hlaalu, Mindvus Arethi -OR- I'm an exiled member of house Hlaalu, just trying to live my life here in the countryside with my neighbor Savvas Indarys.) Everything was going quite well until you people started pushing us around.

If route B is taken, the player will get a quest prompt to find the two and speak to them about it, which will engender similar results.

2. Following this, the play will have several options to choose from, including helping the two neighbors, hindering them, or staying away from the matter all together. I think choices are a HUGE part of any quest, so they will be stressed throughout this quest as a result.

3. Choices: The first choice will be whether to help the two neighbors or not. If you choose to help them, you are by no means bound to help them. In fact, you can tell them you'll help them, but then go talk with the nearby farmers (which I believe are Redoran if I'm not mistaken) and agree with them to get rid of the two neighbors for them.

- Should you choose to get rid of the neighbors, you will have even more options of how to get rid of them. You can threaten them, drive them out of business (and by them I mean Savvas), you can bribe them with a large sum of money, or you can kill them. Depending on which path you choose in order to be rid of them, the consequences and rewards will differ.

- Should you choose to help the neighbors you will start small by helping them gain business, helping Arethi fit in, and getting/keeping the surroundng Redoran out of their hair. Again, you will have choices. You can utilize your Speechcraft skill to persuade the Redoran to accept the situation and trade with them, you can use bribery, blackmail, violence, etc...

- One more option I have thought about is helping Dothnea, Savvas's wife, who despises her husband's Hlaalu friend. Helping her would involve getting rid of Arenim and helping the Indarys couple reach their former stature amongst their fellow Redoran. Again choices, but I'll explain more when I full develop the quest.

Anyways, I won't bore you any longer, but should you follow the quest all the way through and help the two neighbors, depending on how you do things they may become even closer friends -- almost like brothers -- or they may grow to hate eachother. The only side that I have thought about in depth is the "hating eachother side," which could have random scripted events such as them physially fighting, Mindvus abusing Dothnea while Savvas is away to town, thievery from one another, or even murder.

Overall it is an extremely complex quest, and still needs a LOT of development, but I like the idea and I think it is possible.
ZDawg are you in a part of Montana that can be considered 'big sky'?

I am working in MN atm. We may take a ride a little west after this job to check it out. Someone mentioned something about a tall rock formation that can be seen for miles. I forget what the name was.

I agree the quest appears complex and interesting. Good Luck!!
I don't live in Big Sky (a LOT of rich people live there, a place called the Yellowstone Club) but I live in Bozeman, a place considered to be in Big Sky Country.

As for the rock formation, there are plenty of them, not to mention mountains, but the one you might be thinking of is Frog Rock. You can see it from fifteen miles away, maybe even more. Wink

Thanks for wishing me luck. Glad you found the quest interesting. I hope that building quests for Oblivion is a lot easier than building quests for Morrowind (which gave me hell.)

Anyways, discuss the quest or Dunmer Lore at your own leisure. Tongue
I think you've written a very interesting quest draft, and I look forward to following your development of it! Smile

One thing I would strongly suggest though is that you mod your quest in stages. In this case I would suggest that you mod one quest route to completion, so that it can be played through in only one way. After that you'll know you have your quest implemented and working, and that it can be enjoyed by players as it is -- and then you could start adding more choices and alternative endings. I have a few reasons for thinking the idea of stages is a good idea, one of them is that you said you hadn't modded Oblivion quests before and I think the whole quest as you outlined it would be very complex to mod in one go. I would imagine it's complex even for a very experienced modder to keep track of a quest that has, say, half a dozen different endings.

I like both alternatives to starting the quest, and they should both be implemented. I.e. the player can start the quest after he hears the rumor, but should he run into them before that he'll skip that step. It's not likely players will run into them by chance though, since both Soluthis and our overall mod is so huge. But one can influence that to a substantial degree through AI behaviour by making your characters walk around in the exterior world. Maybe one character can walk through the farmland during a part of the day via a patrol schedule, while your other character can mill about outside the city gates. Those are just suggestions though, but AI behaviour along those lines greatly increase the odds that the player will meet your characters.

The hands-down best way in my personal opinion is to write a conversation or two that are spoken between NPCs. Perhaps the player runs into Mindvus and Savvas talking to each other, or perhaps he runs into two other characters talking about them. You could create your own voice work for it, if you have the equipment for it, to ensure that the conversation plays out technically correct. But this is just an idea I thought of, you don't have to create conversations if you don't want to Smile

A third alternative, which I think would be good to implement, is to put up a notice on a noticeboard in the city. Perhaps the letter on the board could be a protest list from an angry citizen? Again it's just a suggestion, there's many ways a notice could be written to make the player aware of the quest. If you like I could write a draft for the notice Smile

Also if there's anything I can do in my capacity as modeller that would make the quest more fun for you, I would be happy to do what I can. Perhaps one quest ending would lead to one or both homes being destroyed? If so I could make a ruin-type model that looks like a razed Redoran hut. Smile
Wow, great ideas! I think it would be awesome to have an ending with the destruction of one of the homes.

I have to first complete both of their homes and the NPCs themselves, so I wont start the quest yet, but I agree with your idea of layers, and I plan to create the quest in that manner: creating one storyline at a time.

I might have proper equipment for voice acting, but I'll have to see. I do have a recording device that has fairly good sound quality, but I'll have to test it out for voice work.

I had no idea you were a modeller! In that case, could I possibly get you to model, say, a pottery throwing wheel?

EDIT: I wonder if you could make a funtional pottery wheel? Probably not, but that would be so cool! Of course, new animations would be needed to see an NPC throwing, for instance, a cup. That would be very difficult I imagine, but I think it would be neat and immersive as well.
Yes please complete the homes and NPCs as a first and separate claim and submit the esp, then please begin modding the quest after the next internal esm is released. Smile (Or you can start right away if there are work you can do that doesn't rely on the content you submitted)

I couldn't say if your voice acting would be permanent, as that's Steve's (SACarrow's) department, but it's a boon if you can record it anyway because as I'm sure you know that's the only way to see if a conversation works or not.

Yes, I made most of the models in our mod. Smile I can't do NPC animations, but I'm confident I can make model animations so that for instance if the player or an NPC activates a pottery wheel it starts spinning. Can you give me a link or links to images of the model you would like me to create? Because with the language- and cultural differences I might otherwise wind up making something other than the model you had imagined.
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