06-20-2009, 01:26 PM
This what they should look like...
I have about 15 types of backgrounds for them.
![[Image: Tsae_letter1EDIT.jpg]](http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh182/Scar-Tail/Tsae_letter1EDIT.jpg)
I have about 15 types of backgrounds for them.
06-20-2009, 02:32 PM
if you're after ideas for the general akavir language, there's 1 ingame book - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Messenger%27s_Diary
imo, the character's look crudely japanese in essence. up to you as to whether or not it should be used as a basis for other akavir stuff later.
imo, the character's look crudely japanese in essence. up to you as to whether or not it should be used as a basis for other akavir stuff later.
06-20-2009, 02:58 PM
they do look vaguely japanese, but, more eerily, many characters (words, not letters, based on the translation) look very similar to those found on an elderscroll. not sure why that is, i'll bring it up with some lore guys, but i do think that the akaviri font should be based on what is found in the diary for lore correctness. if you really feel like keeping this font it can be written off as an alternate system or something.
06-20-2009, 04:50 PM
It's based on the Mandalorian from Star Wars.
I think the language might haves changed a lot, the past hundreds of years.
I always thought that the messenger, who was a human, since he stated that he couldn't feel his legs, was from one of the "devoured" cultures. Mishaxi and the others were human too (I guess the Tsaesci had other stuff to do instead of invading? Or they wanted to see if the humans could be trusted, by letting them attack their own kind? Vey snake-like, isn't it?), so I assumed that they wrote in their own language and the Tsaesci had their own.
Some stuff to support my theory (from the imperial library) "that the Akaviri" means both humans and Tsaesci.
http://www.imperial-library.info/fsg/ada...cle2.shtml
In Mysterious Akavir, the Tsaesci also tried to "eat" the dragons native to their land. Mysterious Akavir says “[...]they (Tsaesci.) tried to eat all the Dragons. They managed to enslave the Red Dragons, but the black ones had fled to Po Tun". If eating is to be taken literally, how can you enslave the creatures you eat? This must mean that eating carries the meaning of conquering or enslaving.
This leads us to one very important conclusion: if the Tsaesci "ate" the dragons by subduing them, they must have done something similar to the supposed humans of Akavir. I believe that the Tsaesci and the humans of Akavir are two different races that inhabit or inhabited the same area. The Tsaesci tried to enslave the humans of Akavir or to conquer their territory and rule their lands. The serpentine Akaviri are therefore not the same people as the humans seen at Pale Pass, though both can indeed be classified as "Akaviri" (Surprisingly, Lady Carvain or her researchers never mentioned the term "Tsaesci" and always used the rather generic "Akaviri".).
======================================
"Akaviri surnames are rare and prized possessions among the Cyrodilic citizenry of today, and there are trace facial features of the Akaviri in many distinguished Cyrodilic families."
- the Pocket Guide To The Empire
In the past, many scholars wondered how the Tsaesci facial traits may have entered the human Cyrodiilic population. If they could even provide offspring, who would have chosen a Tsaesci as a partner? However, if the Tsaesci invasion also brought Akaviri humans to Tamriel, it is not a big step to think that the people of Tamriel may have married with the human Akaviri (In this case, especially the nobility, who may have considered an Akaviri partner as a good diplomatic move or a chance to gain status within the Imperial court.). The Redguards from Yokuda could produce children with the Nedic humans as well, even after having been separated for so long.
======================================
In History of the Fighters Guild, it is stated that "the Tsaesci, understood weaponry better than armor" and that an experienced armorer "was able to explain to the other Syffim (= name of the early Akaviri Fighters Guild members) what the weaknesses were in their opponent’s armor, even if they could not wear it themselves". Many scholars often read in this that the Tsaesci could not wear armor at all, but I believe it is nothing but a rather confusing shortened relative clause. The Tsaesci probably used little or no armor (cfr. "2920: The Last Year of the First Era".), but I think the phrase means that the armorer could point out the weaknesses in the armor their opponents used, even if they could not wear all of it themselves. Greaves or boots, for example. At any rate, this excerpt proves that there must be a great significant physiologic difference between Tsaesci and humans.
addendum: The enslavement theory resembles greatly the story of "Goliath", a book about the western men coming to Africa and "enslaving" them. Eventually, they though the children of the people they "enslaved" how the western culture works. Then the white men left and the children ruled their own people... corrupted in some way.
They even killed some of their own parents.
note: the book speaks not of "white" and "black" but of "white gorillas" saying they're civilized enslaving animals from the forest (bears, rabbits,...) which were "uncivilized".
I think the language might haves changed a lot, the past hundreds of years.
I always thought that the messenger, who was a human, since he stated that he couldn't feel his legs, was from one of the "devoured" cultures. Mishaxi and the others were human too (I guess the Tsaesci had other stuff to do instead of invading? Or they wanted to see if the humans could be trusted, by letting them attack their own kind? Vey snake-like, isn't it?), so I assumed that they wrote in their own language and the Tsaesci had their own.
Some stuff to support my theory (from the imperial library) "that the Akaviri" means both humans and Tsaesci.
http://www.imperial-library.info/fsg/ada...cle2.shtml
In Mysterious Akavir, the Tsaesci also tried to "eat" the dragons native to their land. Mysterious Akavir says “[...]they (Tsaesci.) tried to eat all the Dragons. They managed to enslave the Red Dragons, but the black ones had fled to Po Tun". If eating is to be taken literally, how can you enslave the creatures you eat? This must mean that eating carries the meaning of conquering or enslaving.
This leads us to one very important conclusion: if the Tsaesci "ate" the dragons by subduing them, they must have done something similar to the supposed humans of Akavir. I believe that the Tsaesci and the humans of Akavir are two different races that inhabit or inhabited the same area. The Tsaesci tried to enslave the humans of Akavir or to conquer their territory and rule their lands. The serpentine Akaviri are therefore not the same people as the humans seen at Pale Pass, though both can indeed be classified as "Akaviri" (Surprisingly, Lady Carvain or her researchers never mentioned the term "Tsaesci" and always used the rather generic "Akaviri".).
======================================
"Akaviri surnames are rare and prized possessions among the Cyrodilic citizenry of today, and there are trace facial features of the Akaviri in many distinguished Cyrodilic families."
- the Pocket Guide To The Empire
In the past, many scholars wondered how the Tsaesci facial traits may have entered the human Cyrodiilic population. If they could even provide offspring, who would have chosen a Tsaesci as a partner? However, if the Tsaesci invasion also brought Akaviri humans to Tamriel, it is not a big step to think that the people of Tamriel may have married with the human Akaviri (In this case, especially the nobility, who may have considered an Akaviri partner as a good diplomatic move or a chance to gain status within the Imperial court.). The Redguards from Yokuda could produce children with the Nedic humans as well, even after having been separated for so long.
======================================
In History of the Fighters Guild, it is stated that "the Tsaesci, understood weaponry better than armor" and that an experienced armorer "was able to explain to the other Syffim (= name of the early Akaviri Fighters Guild members) what the weaknesses were in their opponent’s armor, even if they could not wear it themselves". Many scholars often read in this that the Tsaesci could not wear armor at all, but I believe it is nothing but a rather confusing shortened relative clause. The Tsaesci probably used little or no armor (cfr. "2920: The Last Year of the First Era".), but I think the phrase means that the armorer could point out the weaknesses in the armor their opponents used, even if they could not wear all of it themselves. Greaves or boots, for example. At any rate, this excerpt proves that there must be a great significant physiologic difference between Tsaesci and humans.
addendum: The enslavement theory resembles greatly the story of "Goliath", a book about the western men coming to Africa and "enslaving" them. Eventually, they though the children of the people they "enslaved" how the western culture works. Then the white men left and the children ruled their own people... corrupted in some way.
They even killed some of their own parents.
note: the book speaks not of "white" and "black" but of "white gorillas" saying they're civilized enslaving animals from the forest (bears, rabbits,...) which were "uncivilized".
06-20-2009, 05:29 PM
06-20-2009, 05:34 PM
Hmmm... very abstract text.
It only shows how strange their languages is and how "eating" can be interpreted as "absorbing".
What exactly do you want me to do with this? Is this something that undermines my theory? If so, please explain since I don't see why.
It only shows how strange their languages is and how "eating" can be interpreted as "absorbing".
What exactly do you want me to do with this? Is this something that undermines my theory? If so, please explain since I don't see why.
06-20-2009, 07:53 PM
its not as much a rebuttal as a background on the tsaesci and their way of thinking. eating can also be taken as mantling, being that the tsaeci absorbed the human's mythic qualities. Akavir has "man" and "elves" too*, but only mythically so in my opinion, not physically. meaning their relationship to the gods and their view of mundus. pale pass has been stated by devs to be a budget cut, and what we really saw was "immortal. vampire. snakemen."
but anyways, your mod your lore. i wouldn't say that there is anything wrong with it, its plausible weaseling to explain away what the dev's weren't paying attention to. i just prefer my akavir alien, with a side of weird.
*which races qualify as manish and which as merish is a source of continuing debate in the lore community.
but anyways, your mod your lore. i wouldn't say that there is anything wrong with it, its plausible weaseling to explain away what the dev's weren't paying attention to. i just prefer my akavir alien, with a side of weird.
*which races qualify as manish and which as merish is a source of continuing debate in the lore community.
06-20-2009, 08:15 PM
Hmmm... budget cut. -.-
Okay, well... we can use 'em both anyway. Maybe one for the humans and one for the snakes (I think it's best to keep it that way) or one for the common people and one for the high castes/clergy?
Okay, well... we can use 'em both anyway. Maybe one for the humans and one for the snakes (I think it's best to keep it that way) or one for the common people and one for the high castes/clergy?