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Espionage - Printable Version +- Silgrad Tower from the Ashes (https://www.silgradmodding.net/forum) +-- Forum: Archived (closed boards) former hosted projects for Oblivion. (https://www.silgradmodding.net/forum/Forum-Archived-closed-boards-former-hosted-projects-for-Oblivion) +--- Forum: TES4: Vvardenfell (https://www.silgradmodding.net/forum/Forum-TES4-Vvardenfell) +---- Forum: Vvardenfell's Main quest (https://www.silgradmodding.net/forum/Forum-Vvardenfell-s-Main-quest) +---- Thread: Espionage (/Thread-Espionage) |
- Coinneach - 03-22-2008 Well I thought that the general main quest idea was a house war ?( My post was basically suggesting that we add spying events for each joinable faction - if it is going to be a house war, and AFAIK its going to be building up, then espionage and spying would be good to have before any actual fighting takes place. For example, say you join House Telvanni, and the storyline is gradually building up, tensions rising etc. Each of the separate houses(and Imperials, Nords, Betmer etc) want to be in as good a position as possible if a conflict does begin. And it is for this reason that they need to gather information that could help them. So it could be something as simple as stealing names and pay receipts of new recruits, or something as complex as inflitration and assasination of a high ranking noble. Although infiltration would be quite difficult unless you limit each faction to some races. Khajiit pretending to be Nords, or Dunmer pretending to be Argonians, wouldn't very well :yes: :lmao: Edit: Just realised how confusing my Imperial Sponsoring quote sounds. What I meant was that the Imperials would be spying as well, i.e. sponsoring spying of their own, not anyone elses. - raggidman - 03-22-2008 House War and Espionage Add Traitors Add other Factions Specify thr Nature of each House involved and their declared interests Are you sure Coinneach? What about magic? Shapechanging, etc ...? Specify the hidden agendas within each House Houses Hlaalu - 'King' Helseth the Usurper - has split his House. At age 12 his Imperial mother the former Empress, while she was married to the King in 'Daggerfall' was sent for tutoring with the Worm King - as payment for services rendered ... is he therefore secretly allied with Dres Vampires. Has he agreed to vampirise Hlaalu? Now with his Imperial Allies weakened by the loss of the Emperor and the invasions through the Gates he declares his alliance openly. But by assassinating his predecessors he has alienated half his House, or more. Up until nowe they have remained comparitively quiescent out of respect for his Imperial Mother the former Dunmer Empress and once Queen of High Rock, Bahrenziah. If they discover or are persuaded of the true nature of his 'dark' connection what will they do? Dres - Vampire Council members and ripping the Heart out of Indoril on the Mainland Telvanni - there may be a Telvanni Coucillor who is a Vampire, and there are moderns who want to adopt Imperial ways. With the Telvanni who can say? But they have been at war with Hlaalu and Redoran for a long time ... that is what the 'settlers' are about. Officially they might not like Telvanni Vampires - and that would be excellent propaganda. The Telvanni then have 3 scores to settle with Hlaalu: Hlaalu Imperial leanings are possibly more of a liability than ever, Vampiric (true or not) and the right to settle unoccupied or abandoned holdings and land. and if Redoran agree split Hlaalu lands on Vvardenfell between them ... Redoran - Natural allies of Indoril. They are being squeezed to death by Imperial-backed Hlaalu, and they hate Vampires. They might feel that their only recourse, now that their Church and Tribunal support is diminished is to add new allies. And the Nerevarine has to ally with Nerevar's House now that the matter of the Sixth House is dealt with. All the Houses on Vvardenfell owe the Nerevarine, even those he did not join. He also probably did their quests even though he did not join Nerevarine - Whatever House the Nerevarine joined on Vvardenfell. Their Vvardenfell Council will remain loyal to the Nerevarine and will ally with Indoril against the rest of their House if it is Hlaalu. Indoril - Nerevar's House - Church Loyal and Redoran Ally - to ward off the Threat from the Empire, Hllalu and their Vampiric allies will finally accept Telvanni - as like Redoran, in their weakened state, they can do no other. Imperials: Those that have not been recalled to protect the Homeland are in disarray. they no longer have an Emperor to follow, and frnakly Chancellor Occato is just a tad greasy ... so they are split. There is a former Empress alive and thriving in Mournhold. Will she make a bid for the Throne? What will happen if the Dunmer turn on them. Do they want th eDunmer to take control of the Empire again? What is the Religious position now that the Tribunal is gone? Did the Nerevarine join the Imperial factions - especially the Legions and the Nine? Let the Spying, Misinformation, Disinformation, outright Lies, Betrayals and Propaganda commence! But please, no spin doctors! If YOU ARE PREPARED TO ACCOUNT FOR ALL THE ABOVE FACTORS AND MORE THEN YOU CAN CREATE A MAIN QUEST FOR VVARDENFELL. But you will need to work closely with your faction Mayors/Modders to ensure that a very wide variety of options and several outcomes are open. You cannot just do it from one point of view and with one or two outcomes. If you are not prepared to see the whole job through then you can't mod this ... in which case - forget it - Coinneach - 03-22-2008 I don;t know if you directed this at me but..... Quote:If YOU ARE PREPARED TO ACCOUNT FOR ALL THE ABOVE FACTORS AND MORE THEN YOU CAN CREATE A MAIN QUEST FOR VVARDENFELL. But you will need to work closely with your faction Mayors/Modders to ensure that a very wide variety of options and several outcomes are open. You cannot just do it from one point of view and with one or two outcomes. If you are not prepared to see the whole job through then you can't mod this ... in which case - forget it Well I wasn't trying to push my idea of a main quest for Vvardenfell in, and I am certainly not skilled enough to write a MQ for Vvardenfell.... especially seeing as I'm not a core modder or anything like that. My reason for posting this was that I thought it would be a good idea to implement spying etc into the MQ that is being decided or whatever stage its at. I'd be happy to help with ideas etc, but I'll leave the MQ proper to the proffesionals :goodjob: - raggidman - 03-22-2008 I~t is directed to anyone who has the commitment to take this on. No one is a professional here in theorie, but I know what you are talking about and it is not a bad idea. Just trying to encourage a bit of thought and get people involved. I do think that the Core members of Vvardenfell should get their act together and 'rescue' this mod. Or the other members who will otherwise see their contributions totally wasted. Of all the mods here this is the closest to ST and I believe they really ought to go together ... It's a bit of a nonsense to create a Mainland without Vvardenfell especially as the basis for the Mainland is Vvardenfell. Insanity Sorrow and Dave seem to have come in and cleaned out stuff without reading it in detail, then given up and ST has come here and poached modellers and key people without offering anything in return. Skyrim has 'stolen' Solstheim, etc ... Sad really as Vvardenfell has many supporters. - Coinneach - 03-23-2008 Yeah its quite sad to see a mod fall into inactivity, especially when non-core members carry on. If I was anything other than an ideas noob, id contribute something more substantial I was reading some of the stuff Kukulza wrote in the factions department, and it shows you how one guy can make such a difference. Especially one as creative and talented as he was. I agree that Vvardenfell and ST should both work together a lot more, it would mean that as you say modders etc aren't 'stolen'. - Razorwing - 03-23-2008 Quote:Originally posted by raggidman That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Given that our needs are the same as Vvardenfell's what possible incentive would there be for us to 'poach' someone over to our team? I've personally spent thousands of hours creating models, others in our team hundreds of hours, that we freely share with TES4: Vvardenfell. What the hell have you ever done for anyone. Is it that I moved threads over to the Visual Development board? If so, have you somehow missed that our VD board is the same as Vvardenfell's? I think one of the interesting things about you is that a disturbingly large amount of your postings are fueled by a hatred of me. Like this time, blaming Vvardenfell's misfortune on me (ill-disguised as 'ST'). From my point of view it started after we sacked you as Editor since you didn't do any of the things you were supposed to be doing nor did you show much interest in our mod. From your point of view... well, for kicks, you explain how you saw it. And all the while your hatred of me oozes out here and there, as I go about my business - like setting you up as moderator on the Valenwood boards today, on request of their team's leader. What does that say about you and me? - raggidman - 03-23-2008 I read the thread that The Modax Jago made when he arrived. And your invitation on the Beyond Cyrodiil Vvardenfell thread to model for ST, when you have complained about BC people recruiting on ST Forums ... ? But prove me wrong in general and invite the whole of Vvardenfell to merge with ST, as should have happened a long time ago! Here you are talking about shutting Vv down because their team is shrinking, and 'quietly' massaging the process? If you merged the two projects (without 'playing favorites' thereafter) I recon you would find that there was massive support for it and it would boost interest in ST... and here I am the guy who is only getting at you for some qui9xotic revenge or the sake of it, eh? Some home truths for you to gnash your teeth over: Quote:People don't crit you for that reason, they crit you because you often act arrogantly and inconsiderately and obstructively and allow your judgement to be swayed by personal considerations and fears. You do stuff that is worthwhile, then let yourself down with the harm you do when you get a bee in your bonnet and damn the consequence. ... and yes, I am old enough to speak to you like that. I have been around for about twice your lifetime, and I have learned quite a bit in that time Well, there you go - these are my beefs. Now can you put that behind you and offer to merge Vv with ST? It is the same cultural base, the Vv MQ that is being proposed would work very well in conjunction with the ST Lore and provide balance - especially if Hlaalu has the opportunity to strengthen its hold on ST and Redoran, Indoril and Telvanni look to be able to fight off the proposed Hlaalu/Dres Alliance and oust Hlallu from Vvardenfell. Well let the player decide who comes out on top! This could work if you accept that the Empire is in serious trouble in the wake of the Oblivion incidents and HAS already, starting with Morrowind, begun withdrawing the Legions from Morrowind. And there is one more aspect that begs to be included - the scrabble for power in Morrowind should be accompanied by a sub-text. Bahrenziah is a former Empress, so her Son and Heir 'King' Helseth has a claim to the Imperial Throne. and the Heir, Martin is now dead. Helseth has already Usurped the Throne in Morrowind ... - Coinneach - 03-23-2008 I think this war of words might soon overshadow my cr*ppy espionage ideas If you're gonna argue, best to do it in pm no? And bob already started a thread regarding the Status of the mod, and so if we're gonna discuss whether or not to merge, best to it there than do it here OT :yes: - raggidman - 03-23-2008 agreed - apologies Coinneach - there was a little bit at the end that goes with your thread. ... and don't be silly, your espionage idea is not crappy - that is not what my earlier 'short story' is saying ... honest. Your thread here inspired, it did not fall short! - bob196045 - 03-23-2008 Quote:Originally posted by Coinneach your idea isn't crappy, just needs a bit of discussing and tuning Raggidman has some good points with regard to the situations of the houses, I don't necessarily get that deep into the politial and social ramifications of such ideas, to me its pretty simple (simple mindedness ) you can have such spying going on, all we need to know is for what purpose and what will the outcome be , sufice to say it would be best to consider not using the Great Houses or other major Factions/Guilds as a base It might be best to consider such acts with regard to rival mages who are looking to get promoted within the guild and need dirt on the other or uncovering :bad cops: within the ranks for the Imperial Legion even rival clans (Hatfields and McCoy type rivals) things like this can still be made out well and give the player much entertaining game play The Idea is good don't give up on it Enjoy Bob |