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Valderon The Lord High Councilor Registration Date: November 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 1978

Story Suggestion |

Achilles had a very good idea how to start into Silgrad Tower. Here is his post from the old forum:

> quote:

> Ok, here's a little idea about how to get the player to come to Silgrad Tower. Adventure, fame, and fortune are nice, but war is better. Hear me out.
> It has been about 30 years since the Arnesian wars in which the people of Morrowind destroyed the armies of the Black Marsh (Argonians). Now the peace is disrupted when the Empire learns of an Argonian army rising again in the depths of the Black Marsh. In a preemptive move, Imperial forces move in by way of Stormhold and Gideon to pacify the region once and for all. However, being excellent guerilla fighters, the Argonians withdraw deep into the Black Marsh where the Imperial Advance is brought to a crawl by the terrian. What the Agronian generals didn't count on was the speedy arrival of several Imperial divisons in the south at Thorn and Archon by ship effectively cutting off retreat to the north. Seeing the inevitable and not wanting to send their people to their deaths the Argonian leaders disband their armies; the war is over.
> But not quite (hahaha, of course!). One Argonian division under the leadership of (insert Argonian name here) breaks free of the Imperial choke hold and strikes out north, torching Greenglade and Chasecreek as it goes. North straight into the homeland of those who the Argonians hate most, home of those who helped the Imperial invasion of their land, home of the Dunmer, Morrowind. A good sized Imperial force meets them between Eagle Moor and Heimlyn Keep, splitting the force in two. The larger half turns east toward its eventual destruction at Mournhold. At the same time, the smaller half turns west conducting vicious raids against Riverbridge, Karththor Dale, and Verarchen Hall.
> The reminants of the Argonian army are getting closer to Silgrad Tower; closer still. With the Imperial army spread out in the south and the Morrowind division fighting the larger group to the east, Silgrad Tower must defend itself!
> Thus enter the player.
> When the player installs this plugin, their alligences made in Vvardenfell determine why they should come to Silgrad Tower. These are in order of importance (like if you're a member of the Legion and the Fighter's Guild, you'll get the Imperial one; this isn't in stone of course).
> Members of the Imperial Legion recieve an Imperial Summons requiring them to travel to Silgrad Tower ASAP in order to aid in the defense of the city. They must travel to Ebonheart and catch the troop transport ship which will land them near Silgrad Tower.
> Members of the Fighters Guild recieve a notice from the guild that the Fighter's Gulid in Silgrad Tower is asking for more people to better defend the city. It doesn't hurt that they will be paid by the Empire for their services.
> Members of the Mages Guild recieve a simialar request.
> Others will can also recieve personalized guild requests to fo to Silgrad Tower to aide in its defense (theives guild/ assissians guild would be asked to sabotage argonian camp or something).
> I don't really know a good way to get an Agronian player to want to go there! Maybe it could be to restore honor to his/her people since the Argonian leaders who surrundered to the Imperials condemn the actions of the rogue army. Actually, there could be more to it than that. Perhaps to find the truth about the supposed rising Agronian armies? Dunno. But an Agronian player would recieve a unique "invitation" to Silgrad Tower, regardless of their membership.
> Anyhoo, only the first few quests (like 4-6) would involve the conflict against the apporaching Agronian army. It would soon be defeated and fame then falls upon our humble player, for playing an important role in the city's defense, who then enters the social and political life of Silgrad Tower.
> Yea, I'm done!! Thanks for reading! Give me your thoughts.

This story is worth at least 5-10 hours of gameplay I guess. Maybe I expand Silgrad Tower´s exterior again and add the Black Marshes for this...

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When your only tool is a hammer, all problems start to look like nails...

02.01.2003, 20:12 |

Sheikizza Daedric Princess Registration Date: November 2002 Location: Oblivion Posts: 318

I like it...but... |

Valderon,
I like this idea a great deal as the base/foundation quest/storyline for Silgrad Tower. there is a great deal of potential here for a truly EXCELLENT story and game. First, let me mention a few points that may need to be dealt with to implement this...then a list of ideas to flesh the story out...Please bear with me!
ISSUES:
1. Wars and armies KILL fps in Morrowind. get more than a dozen scripted fighters together and it's like a slideshow even on a good system. That said. I feel we can solve this by making the war already underway when you arrive (by teleport obviously)...Silgrad Tower is under seige (as it had been in the first age so long ago) and it's people are trying to defend it from a now entrenched argonian army.
This would allow us to place argonian camps around the city with sentries and patrols. We could even ocassionally script small "attacks" and skermishes that would be small enough to not hurt frame rates. I feel this "seige" would make an excellent backdrop for many of the other quests in the game as well and heighten the tension and excitement level overall.
2. Winning the "war"? How would you win this war? A large final battle is out for the reason listed above. Perhaps it could be won much as the Mad Necromancer General had defeated the Nords so long ago, by using stealth, skill and treatchery? But, that begs ethical questions for a "lawful good" character. I feel this sort of "solution" would be an excellent approach, because it requires the player to use their brains, not just their character's brawn. Offer two or three possible ways to win the "war". Such as sneak out of Silgrad and assassinate the Argonian general, which would be VERY difficult to do. Or, maybe infiltrate the argonian army as one of them and instigate a mutany among the soldiers. Or something else...hehe. you get the idea. Have the "nice", "honorable" option for winning be the most difficult with the greatest chance of failure that would result in the fall of Silgrad and the death of it's people. No pressure , eh? then make other options to win...each less "noble", but each easier than the last. this offers the player an ethical deleima... Just another thought...
3. Getting Argonians involved? that was a good point in the original post. Why would an Argonian player want to help Silgrad Tower? My answer is...they wouldn't. But, that dosen't mean they don't want to come there anyway. try this on for size: The argonian army contacts argonian players and calls all argonians to the war effort. A "good" argonian would want to support their people, yes? They would go infiltrate Silgrad tower and fight for the argonian side from within the town. I spy, idea. this could also offer some ethical dileimas for "good" PCs. You are good for helping your people, yes. But, then you discover that the argonian general plans to slaughter the entire town after they win...to the last man, woman, and child. Hmmm, maybe an ethical/moral choice for the player...help your people, but watch thousands of innocents die? Or, turn on your people and be an outcast?
I feel the option of "joining" the argonian side as a spy within silgrad should be offered to all players so they can be an "evil" character if they wish as well. Same plot as the argonian main quest, just for non-argonians. Everything would be the same, except some dialogue that was race specific. What do you think?
FURTHER IDEAS:
1. Many of the other quests in Silgrad Tower could be worked into this as well. make some guild quests that all have to do with helping (or in some cases, hurting) the Imperial cause in the war. Many of the purely social quests would take on a new tone against the backdrop of a seige and impending doom. The poor guy trying to launch a literacy drive would be heckled as distracting from the war effort! The skooma dealers could be shady characters that are also trying to make a buck(err...septim) from the argonians as well.Etc...you get the idea there.
2. The Necromancer, Shal, would see this as a perfect time to take over Silgrad Tower through his plots and have his revenge while they are all distarcted...Again, I feel the seige and war backdrop would work especially nicely with this quest, as it mirrors the seige and war of the first age when Shal's ancestor took over Silgrad and launched his reign of terror. He may even see all this as an omen of his victory (since he is one of the only ones that remembers that time and his ancestor)...
Also, the witches' coven would ahve prophetic visions that the player could ask about if the take up the minor quests about them that would give hints as to Shal's plans and the past. They could warn the player of what happened in the first age that was now repeating itself thousands of years later...
Ummm...I should stop now. I am getting too excited! I want to PLAY this mod NOW!!!! Hehehe...
Just a few ideas...let me know what you all think!
Sheikizza

__________________
SHEIKIZZA ICEMANE
Lost and Wandering Soul
Seeker of Knowledge
Bearer of Dark Secrets
www.sheikizza.com

03.01.2003, 15:30 |

Reena McGuire Lady Almalexia Registration Date: November 2002 Location: Wuppertal, Germany Posts: 604

Rogue blade agent |

I wasn't sure, where to put this. Somehow it's a new thread, somehow not. There is this storyline about a rogue blade agent, who isn't rogue, but an agent, who is (namely 'rogue'). That would perfectly fit into the war story, because nobody then would finally know, whom to trust, if at all, and whom not. In this special and very paranoid situation it would be wonderfully dark and suspicious.
Since it was developed by Achilles and pompadour_slim, I'm curious to hear their opinion and proposals.
Salut
Reena

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Canis Lupa

03.01.2003, 22:51 |

Achilles467 Defender of the Virtues Registration Date: November 2002 Location: United States Posts: 464

When I orginally had this idea I was thinking of keeping the group of aggressive Agronians that reach Silgrad Tower to a relative small number; it's only like 5-10% of the total Agronian force, the rest goes to Mournhold to their defeat (Tribunal tie-in!!). Think of it like two or three platoons (a platoon has 21 soliders) in size. I would really like to tie in the rogue Blades agent story I will re-post later tonight with some added details.
Overall I think that this war* should be more of a backdrop to the beginning of the rogue Blades agent/necromancer main quests.
*The force that reaches Silgrad is by no means the main action of the conflict. It's more a mopping up action that takes place in the final weeks of the uprising.
Edit:
Ok here's a change to the backstory for everyone to think about.
As we all know the Emperor is dying. In his remaining time he wishes to make sure that order is not lost after his death. In order to do so he must befriend the Argonians. It seems to me that (after doing some research) that Imperial forces were never able to pacify the region of the Black Marshes so a truce was called and the Black Marshes were declared an Imperial Province, but only in name; distrust and violence still exist between the Argonians and the Empire. The Emperor now wishes them to become a real Imperial Province with open borders. The Argonian leaders are reluctant at first but eventually begin to see that becoming a true Imperial Province will benefit them. In effect it will put an end to the moderate violence and mistrust between the two which has been going on ever since the Empire first tried to conquer them. Even as the two come closer to true peace, there are those on both sides who do not want peace, "no peace in our time." On the eve of the Black Marshes opeing its borders, an Argoninan army goes renegade trying to create a war to keep the Black Marshes out of the Empire. But suprisingly the Imperial response is swift; it follows the afore-posted story but the armies fail to catch this renegade army as it heads into Morrowind. The rest of the story is the same.
Now, I think that the renegade Argonian army should not launch at the beginning. The player should hear rumors about the possibility of such an event. This means that all the goings on are still in the political stage when the player starts on the rogue Blades agent story, which takes place in the time of political chaos over the negotiations in the Black Marsh.

04.01.2003, 01:20 |

pompadour_slim Keeper of Guars Registration Date: November 2002 Location: Posts: 349

I have to agree with Achilles' last post as far as the state of the war when the PC comes to Silgrad is concerned, because I frankly cannot imagine how we would be able to give them impression of a "city under siege" in our plug-in without some major changes. First of all, the city wouldn't have a huge wide open gate, and there would soldiers EVERYWHERE and we haven't worked into the infrastructure and government the kinds of things that cities go through during war time such as rationing and conscription. I mean, how much would it suck to go to the blacksmith and have him tell you he can't repair your stuff because he is too busy making swords for the new peasant army?
I love the backdrop of war, but I agree that Silgrad itself shouldn't be the center, for the above reasons and reasons mentioned by Sheikizza.
That said, I think that something similar to what happened in Tribunal (for those that don't have it, there is a point where "monsters" attack the city and the PC is sent to help the local authorities defend it by fighting alongside them) could work wonderfully well in this situation. Perhaps instead of placing camps nearby, or in addition to placing an Argonian camp nearby, we could script an event to happen as the result of a certain quest being finished that would send some Argonians in to fight with the guards and the PC would be urged to participate. If the PC were an argonian, we might even have him/her arrested for suspicion of spying (even if s/he has not aided the other argonians in any way) and have a set of quests specifically for that. After that event happens, you would remove the pcs from the outlying argonian camps as though it was they who attacked the city (just disable them).

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06.01.2003, 03:51 |

Reena McGuire Lady Almalexia Registration Date: November 2002 Location: Wuppertal, Germany Posts: 604

Hi to all,
As wonderful as it would be to have a mayor event connected to Silgrad, I, too, was concerned by the side effects of a great war. So I agree with Achilles, Sheikizza and pompadour_slim. We should take care, that Silgrad Tower itself is not too heavily involved - besides the authorities, of course, so that daily life just can go on as usual. pompadour_slim was right, when he mentioned, that some things inevitably come with war, as for example rationing, and Quentin and I thought of some other characters, who would be involved, too. The poet, for example would not write riddles, but encouraging war songs, only a few people would have the time (and the money) to go to an exhibition, the so-called 'crime' of a small servant would go unnoticed or not be taken seriously and ... I think, you got my idea.
But if mainly the player is involved, getting his informations through darker sources as well as through the official ones, it would add wonderfully to the drama and adventure of ST.
Salut
Reena

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Canis Lupa

06.01.2003, 17:22 |

Quentin Fortune The Fourth Horseman Registration Date: November 2002 Location: Silgrad Tower, Upper Chambers 2 Posts: 2670

I think I'm just killing a dead rat, but I have to throw my comments into this thread.
I agree with the aforementioned arguments against a war-like situation around Silgrad Tower. I, too, think that it would have too much impact on the daily life, if it would be really 'war' we're talking about. I fear that all the light-hearted and humourous quests had to be withdrawn in a war or at least to be minimized to create an appropriate 'war atmosphere'. Another drawback (at least until now and in my eyes until convinced otherwise) would be that the quest around Shal would have to change considerably, for I cannot imagine that in a city under siege and full with imperial soldiers anybody with sinister intentions would have easy play to achieve his goals. In a war situation there would be something similar to our martial law and anybody who would behave suspiciously might face instant death due to martial law.
We could also forget about our rich and bored daedra worshippers, because they wouldn't be bored any longer.
So much about that.
I just had the idea that we could take parts of the initial quest suggestion and have a group of (let's say) a dozen to twenty Argonian elite soldiers, excellently trained and specialized in sabotage missions, led by a 'general' (or whatever the Argonians may have) who is of the 'No-peace-while-I'm-still-breathing'-faction. Thus we could integrate all the exciting aspects of the storyline, but wouldn't have to face the drawbacks as mentioned before. And IMHO there would be more room for Argonian PCs to be involved in this story.
Greetings
Quentin Fortune

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That’s what a ship is, you know. It’s not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs, but what a ship is … what the Black Pearl really is … is freedom.

06.01.2003, 18:22 |

Achilles467 Defender of the Virtues Registration Date: November 2002 Location: United States Posts: 464

I like that Quentin. Let me build on that idea. Instead of this renegade Argonian army heading north into Morrowind, how about it actually heads west into Elsweyr and Cyrodiil; it never steps foot into Morrowind b/c of a strong Imperial army at the border. That way we avoid having to deal with large scale battles and such. However, small groups of Argonians have taken up the cause and have moved into Morrowind on a campaign of terrorism. Attacks would be few but the casualities would be high. This would allow the people to go about their lives despite the distant conflict. Seriously I don't really care about a war that is on the other side of the globe; I can go about my day just fine. Heck, even the nobles may be even more bored since they got their hopes up about a war that never came their way. The terrorism could be stuff of vague rumors and such.
Oh yeah, I think Quentin named the head Argonian, seriously, that should be his name. I still smile when I see No-Peace-While-I'm-Still-Breathing. hahaha

07.01.2003, 01:23 |

Quentin Fortune The Fourth Horseman Registration Date: November 2002 Location: Silgrad Tower, Upper Chambers 2 Posts: 2670

Achilles, that idea is absolutely brilliant. I must admit, I had absolutely no intention to name the man, but you're right, it would be the perfect name. We should just change it to 'No-Peace-While-Breathes' to make the name more Argonian.
And your changes to the story sound appealing.
Greetings
Quentin Fortune

__________________
That’s what a ship is, you know. It’s not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs, but what a ship is … what the Black Pearl really is … is freedom.

07.01.2003, 13:12 |

Sheikizza Daedric Princess Registration Date: November 2002 Location: Oblivion Posts: 318

A lone voice in the wilderness says...doh! |

Hey all!
Okay, I wanted to clarify my earlier post about this "war/seige" main plotline. I feel after reading many other peoples posts that some of what I said was taken to imply that I was against this plot/story. Actually, I like it a lot! I am very much FOR this "war" story; I just wanted to point out some of the hurddles we needed to clear...
After reading all these posts that are AGAINST the idea of an actual "war/seige" at Silgrad, I feel like a lone voice crying from the wilderness FOR war! I am only one small opinion in this mod, for sure...still, I want to throw out what I feel is the best reason FOR having this plotline...
IT WOULD CREATE A TRULY HEROIC AND SWEEPING EPIC STORY!
Okay, now let me expalin that...hehe... Many of the people who have criticized Morrowind's storyline and "openness" have a central arguement: It doesn't feel like an EPIC fantasy. It is TOO open for many, takes too long to get the main quest going and has no "mood" or feel of immediateness. In many ways, I agree with that assessment. Compared to many other "traditional" fantasy RPG greats, like the Baldur's Gate series, Diablo series, Ultima series etc...Morrowind seems to wander a bit before getting the plot going and somehow never has as much of a feel of immediacy and impending "doom" as many fantasy stories. I feel that Silgrad should have such a storyline...something that "feels" epic and grand. Something that makes the events and action "real" and "personal" to the player. Okay, I am rambling now, so I will stop and leave it at this: I think we need an epic, grand, world-saving story for Silgrad Tower to set it apart from all the mods that have failed to offer this important RPG element.
I am done now. I will wait for reactions. I am especially interested in Valderon's opinion on this, as his is often the least heard...(hmmm, that might be because I won't shut my mouth long enough for him to say anything! )
Sheikizza

__________________
SHEIKIZZA ICEMANE
Lost and Wandering Soul
Seeker of Knowledge
Bearer of Dark Secrets
www.sheikizza.com

07.01.2003, 18:13 |

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