Silgrad Tower from the Ashes

As I begin to post claims up for our major cities, I feel it is time to share this with you: a tactic for mass-modding interiors that helps to cut corners to a degree. It may not prove popular with the purist modders but, as far as production goes, I feel that we have to be practical if we mean to eventually get around to fulfilling our greater creative urges.

The most basic important piece of information I can tell you is that from now on when I post up interiors for claims involving house interior structures whose models are not unique creations such as our own huts and houses, they will come already with items placed within them and will look like they have been fully modded. This is not the case! They still need to be modded. They are just copies of vanilla interiors that you need to customise according to the claim's requirements using our own assets. If you wish to delete everything then just highlight everything in the object window besides the interior house model and the doors/door markers and you can start from scratch.

I used this tactic to work on Tenmar Wall interiors and it worked fine with no hitches. I will include a downloadable Word doc of this strategy/guide as an attachment (it's easier to read) but the best thing that you can do if working on lots of interiors is to become familiar with the assets we have available (I'm hoping to provide a guide of EVERYTHING we have and where it all is in the CS, if I have time).


Tactic

This is a quick way of mass-modding interiors for large towns/cities with vanilla OB interiors. It does not work for specialist interiors unless you use someone else’s modding within BM as your template.

When hurrying to complete a town/city claim, and especially if the interiors are vanilla models (it doesn’t matter if they’ve been re-textured), a good strategy is to build upon vanilla layouts.

To begin, you must first find out which city in vanilla OB that the interiors in your own town/city belong to e.g. Gideon uses mainly Cheydinhal interiors. Then match up the individual model of that interior e.g. Cheydinhal01 with the model of your own interior. This is the model that you can now search for within the interiors list of the Tamriel WS.

Before you start, make sure that the CS has no asterisk at the top that tells you that you have some unsaved modding. IMPORTANT: If at any point whilst you are in the Tamriel WS and the CS tells you that you have altered something in a vanilla cell, you must quit without saving immediately or else you will corrupt your file and may cause worse errors for BM.

Once you’ve found an interior with your interior model in it, go into that cell and click on the interior model. Then centre your view by clicking ‘C’. Next, highlight everything there and use CTRL-C to copy. Now go back to your BM interior, delete any unnecessary items such as lights and go to ‘Edit-Paste in Place’ or ‘Edit-Paste’, depending on whether you need to change the interior model or not. If you do then you can simply use the search and replace function.

If you have no BM interior as a starter cell then it is even easier as you just right-click your chosen vanilla interior and select ‘duplicate’ before renaming the cell and connecting it up with the BM WS.

If you get any error messages at this stage then it is likely that your chosen location is being used as part of a vanilla OB mission. If so, DO NOT CONTINUE WITH THIS INTERIOR but press ‘no’ on the prompt (which should be an “Are you sure?” message) before you create a ‘dirty’ esp that affects the original cells. If no errors occur then you need to make a quick reconnaissance of the interior to delete specialist items such as quest objects and any NPCs. But, if there are no error messages, there should be no problem but remember to keep saving as you go and create different versions of your file so that you can go back.

Remember to adjust door markers that may be out of position!

If you plan to ‘mass-mod’ a set of interiors for a whole town/city then you can use the same interior cell by just copying and pasting your interior models into the same cell and placing them side by side with a reasonable distance between them (be careful to keep everything within one interior together though). This is so that you can select everything within each model interior at a later date so that you can place them in duplicate cells and then just rename. Again, don’t forget the door markers!

After you have assembled all the model interiors in your ‘working cell’, you can look at what you’d like to replace in order to customise your interior to your liking. Use the ‘search-and-replace’ function and make sure that your changes affect everything within the cell. The notes given below are possible suggestions.

Please note that using this tactic can prove just as time-consuming as modding an interior from scratch (and it’s less creative) but, if you plan on ‘mass-modding’, it can be a lifesaver against tedium as once you’re over the boring bit then you can have a break and enjoy lots of trouble-free customisation without the dull ‘nerdiness’ of having to add extra details.

Replacement Notes

This list will be updated. If using the interiors strategy, please contribute by adding details of what you replaced e.g. furniture, as more interior clutter models become available over time.

Clutter:

VANILLA OBJECT - 1st Column..................BM OBJECT - 2nd Column.................

BroomFarm01...........................BMNormalMop - Resize to 1.4
LowerBowlTan01.......................BMlowerclassbowl02
LowerBowlTan02.......................BMlowerclassbowl03 - Needs adjusting
LowerBowlTan03.......................BMlowerclassbowl01
LowerClassCup01......................BMlowerclasscup01
LowerClassCup02......................BMlowerclasscup02
LowerClassCup03......................CoconutCup
LowerClassFork01.....................BMResinFork1 - Needs adjusting
LowerClassKnife01....................BMResinKnife1 - Needs adjusting
LowerClassLadel01...................BMClubGourdLadle01 - Resize to 0.7
LowerClassMug01.....................BMResinTankard1 (or BMResinCupGourdFlwr)
LowerClassPitcher01.................BMDecanterSwamprock
LowerClassPlate01....................BMResinPlate1 - Needs adjusting
LowerClassSpoon01.................BMResinSpoon1 - Needs adjusting
LowerCoveredPot01..................BMBushelGourdBsktPotAniM - Resize
LowerCoveredPot02..................BMBushelGourdBsktStaticAnim - Resize to 0.25
LowerCupTan01.......................BMResinCup1 (or BMResinGoblet1) - Needs adjusting
LowerCupTan02.......................BMResinCupGourdFlwR
LowerCupTan05.......................BMResinGobletSaffroN
LowerJugTan05........................CoconutBowL
MiddleBowlTan01.....................BMlowerclassbowl01
MiddleBowlTan03.....................CoconutBowl
MiddleClassPewterFork01..........BMResinFork1 (if Argonian) - Needs adjusting
MiddleClassPewterKnife01.........BMResinKnife1 (if Argonian) - Needs adjusting
MiddleClassPewterSpoon01.......BMResinSpoon1 (if Argonian) - Needs adjusting
MiddleCupTan01......................BMlowerclasscup02
MiddleCupTan02......................BMlowerclasscup01
MiddleMetalPlate......................BMResinPlate1 (if Argonian) - Needs adjusting
MiddlePitcherTan02..................BMDecanterEarthenware
UpperSilverBowl01...................BMResinBowl (possibly, if Argonian) - Check; 3 varieties

Containers:

BarrelClutterMiddle01...............Middlebarrelclosed01
BarrelClutterMiddle02...............Middlebarrelclosed02
BarrelClutterMiddle05...............Middlebarrelclosed03
ChestHouseArmoryUpper02.......BMBambooChestAnim1
CupboardClutterLower..............BMTrunkCupboard - Needs much adjusting
CupboardClutterMiddle.............BMLCCupboard01Container
SackClutterMiddle02.................TurtleShellChest
SackOpenClutterMiddleGrain01..BMTurtleSmChestAnim1bOpt Needs checking
SackClutterMiddle02.................TurtleShellChest

Furniture:

None as yet.

Ingredients

Apple.....................................BMIngredMango1
Breadloaf...............................BMIngredPineapple - Resize to 0.8
CheeseWedge........................BMIngredDragonArum
Carrot...................................BMIngredSugarCane
Corn.....................................BMIngredMonsteraFruit
Leek.....................................BMIngredVanilla
Lettuce.................................BMIngredCoconut
Potato..................................BMIngredSylMush - Resize to 0.7
Pumpkin...............................BMIngredPineapple
Radish..................................BMIngredBlueberry - Needs adjusting
Watermelon..........................BMIngredHalaRipeStatic

Wall Hangings

LowerClassTapestry...............BMAztecCanvas03 - Resize
LowerClassTapestry01a..........BMPainting03
LowerPainting08....................BMPainting01

NB: Custom items are added all the time. Since creating these notes, I added more rugs, a root chair / root cupboard and some new books are on the way.

wait, are you saying to just cookie cut bethesda interiors? this produces completely uninteresting cells, and players will notice the similarity. the only way to ensure a unique interior is to start from scratch, or move everything in a cookie cuted interior around (which is more trouble than its worth). it also means that you will likely end up with inappropriate or unique items in the interior, as well as items whose ownership will need to be removed.

the "dull nerdiness" is what sets a blah, boring interior that no one will ever want to step inside from an interior that feels like its been lived in and that the player will want to visit. if youre going to have a bunch of space filler interiors you might as well just lock the outside doors and have no interiors at all - saves even more time.

is it really that hard to find a shell and clutter? ?(

I totally disagree. It provides a basis on which to develop the uniqueness. You can delete as much as you like but I personally get sick of feeling the need to put in a cupboard here and there just because there's some empty space. There's only so much creativity you can bring to an interior.

In some cases, I don't care if players notice some similarity. Of course there are similarities. It's the same game. It uses many of the same models...even if they are retextured.

The point is that the priority is not to make a masterpiece of every interior (which a lot of players will either breeze through or not enter anyway) but to enable modders with the freedom to use the interiors. Quest modders are likely to adjust things to their requirements anyway if they need to use a specific interior. It's not to say that the interiors will not be attractive. Key locations will obviously receive much more attention but I see no reason to hold back the development of much more exciting ideas by painstakingly going over each one. It's just not necessary IMO.

This is what the mini-claims are for. I don't expect the finished claims to come back looking similar. Modding the interior is a point of pride for the individual modder and the claim will be judged worthy once submitted.

Besides which, our Imperial-influenced interiors are not going to look right unless they look similar to some degree to the Cyrodiil interiors. The real originality comes with our custom assets and with bringing Argonian culture into the mod.

I knew this wouldn't be popular with purists but purists tend to disregard practicality....which is exactly the sort of thing that prevents mod-death, mod-disinterest, mod-exasperation and all sorts of other modding disasters....

well, considering ive yet to run into a modding disaster...

you say it provides a basis, i say that people wont take it out of "copy" territory. sure its annoying to place a cupboard, but if you give someone an interior full of items most people (at least the people that youre attracting with such measures) arent going to bother to move most stuff aroundc. they will leave stuff where it was and replace a couple of tapestries, making not an argonian home but a cyrodiilic home with an argonian tapestry. sure, there will be people who will take the the time and replace resources and make the home feel like it really is an extension of its inhabitant - but these same people would also be fine building it from the ground up.

when youre telling people that its OK to copy they will do so, and wont bother to really put any more thought into it than that. its plagiarism, pure and simple.

While I agree with the lady to a point, with limited man power it would seem a needed evil. If you feel you will not have the people to develop many interiors then I can see it as a viable resource from a modding perspective.

Siding with the lady I think you will have to scrutinize the interiors for objects that do not belong. Folks get lazy and if they are copying and pasting, then that type of work habit can and will lead to overlooking certain variables. That could get time consuming also upon review.

Personally, I guess I could be considered a 'purist' but that does not mean copy and paste wouldn't work.

Quote:Originally posted by Lady Nerevar
well, considering I've yet to run into a modding disaster...

An unreleased mod is, to me, a modding disaster. I know because I've seen the art of modding take place from its very beginnings in which talented and creative people who provide idea-exploiting games developers with plenty of material on open forums (it happens!), receive precisely diddly-squat for their efforts, not even the satisfaction of having created something. So I ask you this key question: how many actually completed Oblivion worldspace mods are there? You can follow that question up with: how many have you seen in development?

Some of Tenmar Wall's interiors have been extensively altered whilst others have been very slightly altered. I knew what I wanted to do with them from the outset though so the strategy serves as a tool. As I said, I'm monitoring this and I won't accept poor work so if someone gets lazy, I'll know about it.

As regards 'pure and simple plagiarism'...well, as Oscar Wilde said, "the truth is rarely pure and never simple." And the truth of creativity in the postmodern world that we live in is that the likes of DJ Shadow can create an album like 'Endtroducing' composed entirely from 'cuts' of old tunes and get paid for it! There's no such thing as Intellectual Copyright where the games manufacturer has given you the tools to their own game and said, "go create." And if it's the moral sting that you're feeling then consider what I mentioned about Bethesda using its fans as marketing guinea pigs for its next big ideas...no guilt there...

We don't have tons of modders. If only the likes of the great Zurke (a veteran of many a great interior) were with us, we'd be better off but I can accept he enjoys himself enough over on ST.

Good point about scrutinising, btw. I know which models from Tenmar Wall I need to change but I can't expect everybody to be aware of what they're putting in there....

And thanks to the lady-lurker for her critical eye that helps to work through these ideas.... :yes:

I think this is a very difficult question. There is merit in both arguments, and I must say, if I'd been here back when Oblivion was released and there was much more interest in worldspace mods, I'd have said no to this strategy. But I feel I've got to be realistic. Oblivion is an old game now, interest in modding has clearly declined, and attracting new members is almost impossible, as I found out to my cost when trying to revive Summerset Isles and High Rock. I have no wish to experience that level of disappointment and frustration again.

Given how few people we have working on the mod, I think I agree with Zurke and Ibsen that this may be a necessary evil, especially because so many of our completely new interiors and dungeons will absolutely require being made from scratch. Soulrest and the Argonian villages add up to a lot of claims, and if this can help us clear the backlog from Stormhold and Gideon (which will both require many from-scratch interiors anyway) then it may well be worth it.

I agree absolutely with Zurke that we would need to be pretty ruthless about sending back interiors that were not up to the required standard of quality.

Tell you what, I will give this technique a fair trial for some of my Stormhold Bravil-based interiors. I will upload the esp files with some screenshots,and then everyone can judge how far this can produce interesting interiors.

......................

While we are on this subject, I don't know if anyone knows this but the Seafalls diamond mine appears to be a copy-n-paste of a vanilla mine. I don't know who made it, but it looks totally out of place in BM and should probably be replaced.

Seafalls diamond mine? I didn't even know it existed...!!!

Btw, have you already added the Stormhold interiors yourself in this way? If so, then I've just spent a wasted day....

...and on the subject of the necessary evil, I personally cannot envisage any other option. Modding just takes too much time and I have no intention of being part of another dead mod, especially if I'm in charge.

Well, I didn't put anything in them yet, I just created starter cells.

Yeah, there is a Seafalls diamond mine. Although it appears to have no diamonds in it....?

What's the Editor ID? I can't find it.... :eek:

Btw, I just completed all of Northern Stormhold's interior cells (the basic, unedited versions, that is)....took me almost a whole day due to the ramshackle construction of the whole thing....the UC section should be easier to set up. Anyhow, the interior claims will take a little longer because of this.