Silgrad Tower from the Ashes

@ IG, : Cool, thanks!

KP

IG, I checked your file in-game. Yes, upstairs looks much better with more space and a free access to the bed. I didn't install the new hibiscus yet, so the hibiscus I had in-game were off.

Yet to me there still are some things which seem a little weired:
1. the lighting is too intense (at that time I struggled with installation of BM resources and couldn't check it in-game)
2. the interior is a bit overdecorated as for the poor village (I did that out of context)
3. Helga walks funny. When I was in-game, she went onto the table and tried to walk into the wall. Suddenly she succeeded and kinda disappeared.
4. There is still that nasty thing in the dialogue. I don't know how to change that. Anyone does? How to edit 'Display Text' field.
5. NPC dialogue is too fast, but maybe I don't have something you guys have, some kind of a silent dialogue plugin, which plays empty mp3 files.

A side note: Since you've mentioned corrections of some of the objects. Do I always have to snap to grid? In my private mods, I usually snapped to grid big objects, like static architecture. Big chunks. But with small objects, I disabled the snap: doors, some food etc. And I mostly only used the F button to "floor" the object when necessary. Yet sometimes you have to "lower" the object, after pressing F, so it looks more natural. Especially the round surface.

I know that in Thief you have to snap to grid all the brushes, otherwise the editor will crash. Yet my understanding was that with CS it's not compulsory.

Yes, it's not compulsory. The only situation where I think it's absolutely critical is in working with tilesets. The Hist Shrine, for example, is a bitch to deal with and I'd recommend it to only the most experienced modders...looks awesome though!

Caves, ruins and suchlike are best off using snap-to-grid or else the seams underground are really invisible, especially if you use a lurid water in the interior cell like the bright yellow Hist sap. For objects, there's absolutely no need whatsoever. I only use it for large pieces of architecture and tilesets...oh, and switching it on and off when fixing doors can be useful.

I thought the lighting wasn't too bad but it would just be a case of deleting a few lights, I think. And I'm fine with the decorating. It's no problem at all. Just make sure that you don't put chairs, beds and suchlike too close together as NPCs may struggle to get past.

I'm not sure about that walking thing but it sounds like a pathgrid issue. She shouldn't be walking into the wall unless the pathgrids lead her there. Give it a quick check.

I'm not so sure about the fast dialogue either. I had that on and off for a while. It happens with some mods. I can't remember how I solved it last time either. Likewise, I'm sitting hoping that the dialogue issue can get sorted. Neither of which should be a problem for the time being though.

I think it's now just a case of re-fixing the Hibiscus. I'll have to switch the models as I handle the admin on the archive so, once they're fixed, just leave it to me. Then it's job done... =)

Ha! You're gonna love it, you're gonna love it. Here is the file with Helga now actually offering services.

http://www.filefactory.com/file/cca9e68/...607v2_esp

IG: I used your latest esp file as a base. What I changed was:
1. Helga is now kind enough to offer her services (don't expect too much, just potions ). Here is what was wrong: [SPOILER] [COLOR="#414560"]Your script was fine, but there was no services AI pack.[/COLOR] [/SPOILER]. Damnit, at least for once I proved helpful, instead of constantly messing around.
2. Dialogue problem fixed, as per this thread. I must have been retarded not see this.
3. Lighting, so it's less glamorous.
4. Books, so they can be readable. Got rid of some erroneous html tags. Fixed some minor text fillers. (you found the crumped paper upstairs with the tavern folk's version of the meeting, rite?)


With the new lighting, I think the decor is more 'realistic' as for a dump hole. So maybe now the hibiscus would do. After all it's a place owned by a woman, so she might be a little innovative with the decorations.

What I would still change is the basement. Look at the path grids. The space between the beds is too narrow. I bet the NPCs would go crazy here. Maybe you can do your magic, same as what you did with upstairs! :goodjob:

I wish to thank Koniption for the quick re-working of the Hibiscus. That was fast! :goodjob: I didn't touch the Hibiscus in the esp. With Koniption great re-work, they don't jump up now, but they are still off in terms of positioning. And they fall down.

As for Helga walking into the wall... I think it's due to the narrow stairs. The path grid seems alright, but she reaches the first point up the stairs, falls down and tries to reach the next point upstaris. She can't and starts walking 'into the wall'. I can't think of a good fix. Maybe a banister would help channel her? But that would require a building model re-engineering, which is a big thing.

Quote:I think it's now just a case of re-fixing the Hibiscus. I'll have to switch the models as I handle the admin on the archive so, once they're fixed, just leave it to me. Then it's job done... =)

I can fix whatever there is to be fixed. Other than that, what about Blackrose: Hinald and Jastopha's House? I posted under this thread, what do you think?

Quote:Originally posted by jb3
[snip]
I wish to thank Koniption for the quick re-working of the Hibiscus. That was fast! :goodjob: I didn't touch the Hibiscus in the esp. With Koniption great re-work, they don't jump up now, but they are still off in terms of positioning. And they fall down.

As for Helga walking into the wall... I think it's due to the narrow stairs. The path grid seems alright, but she reaches the first point up the stairs, falls down and tries to reach the next point upstaris. She can't and starts walking 'into the wall'. I can't think of a good fix. Maybe a banister would help channel her? But that would require a building model re-engineering, which is a big thing.
[snip]

I sent two different versions of the "Hibiscus" flowers. You need to make a new CS entry, under "Statics" section, and enter the new Hibiscus flowers that I put in the "clutters" folder, in that "Static" CS section. Then, you need to do "Search and Replace" in the CS, and replace the Hibiscus flowers you are currently using in Helga's Hostel, with the new "Static" CS ones.

"Static", is a term that means "nonmoving". I even used the word "static" in the name of the new static Hibiscus flower nifs ("clutters" folder), so they are easy to differentiate from the havoked ingred versions ("ingred" folder).

I took a quick look at the interior room model for Helga's Hostel, in Nifskope. It appears to me, that each stair is too high. This means the NPCs, and player, probably can't walk up the stairs. There either needs to be more stairs with each being lower in height...or a slanted collision layer needs to be placed across the stairs, to form a smooth "ramp" to walk up, instead of individual steps with collision that is too high between steps.

If you play as the player, and are running up those stairs, and not walking up those stairs...if you are able to go up the stairs while running, this is common game behavior, I think. When running, the player has more momentum (or something like that), and so the game allows the running player to go up stairs, that "walking" NPCs cannot. And NPCs, by default, "walk" upstairs, and don't "run" upstairs (unless chasing someone or fleeing)...so they aren't able to go up those stairs, usually.

@ jb3 : When in game and in Helga's Hostel, are you able to run up the stairs ok? What about walking up them instead? Lastly, try attacking Helga downstairs, then run upstairs, and see if she can follow you then (because she'd be in run mode).

Btw, thanks for finding out what was wrong with the service package. I hadn't gotten around to looking into it yet, so that's one less thing I have to do.

Koniption

@Koniption: I can see why Ibsen and Deeza adore you so much in the project team. You are incredible. Many thanks for all the help and advise.

Quote:Originally posted by Koniption
I sent two different versions of the "Hibiscus" flowers. You need to make a new CS entry...[snip]

OK, will do. Can't do this right now, but I will get down to it later today.

Quote:Originally posted by Koniption
I took a quick look at the interior room model for Helga's Hostel, in Nifskope. It appears to me, that each stair is too high. This means the NPCs, and player, probably can't walk up the stairs. There either needs to be more stairs with each being lower in height...or a slanted collision layer needs to be placed across the stairs, to form a smooth "ramp" to walk up, instead of individual steps with collision that is too high between steps.

Yes, as we suspected. So unfortunatly this would require the building mesh model modifications. I could try my hand at that. I must admit it's been a while, since I've last done any serious modelling (not counting minor model tweaks). Therefore I'm not the best person to do the job. Yet if nobody steps forth, I can try that later today.

Quote:Originally posted by Koniption
@ jb3 : When in game and in Helga's Hostel, are you able to run up the stairs ok? What about walking up them instead? Lastly, try attacking Helga downstairs, then run upstairs, and see if she can follow you then (because she'd be in run mode).

I will report back as soon as I check that. Can't do that right now.

Quote:Originally posted by Koniption
Btw, thanks for finding out what was wrong with the service package. I hadn't gotten around to looking into it yet, so that's one less thing I have to do.

Sure, you're welcome. Like I said, first time when I actually proved helpful, instead of constantly being a pest. :lmao:

I was going to say don't do anything with the Hibiscus yet...but I noticed that the file-paths are spot on for where I would put them in the archive so yes, go ahead and add them. Just make sure that the file-paths of KP's .rar file correspond with your own data folder.

Yes, I'd like to find out what happens to make Helga walk upstairs. If it doesn't work, I'll have to contact morcroft to see if he can make things a little more manageable for the NPCs.

Well done with the AI package! I guess it has to be a specific one, which reminds me: I do need to check places like Inns and shops to make sure everything is running as it should in terms of the AI. This will probably be a part of TESAlliance's jobs at game-testers though...

Edit - Scrap what I said above about the Hibiscus. I just added all the last bits and pieces to the file including the static models and a deleted bed (with adjusted pathgrid) from the basement. I'll have this merged. Job done. Claim complete! :check:

Nevertheless, feel free to continue to discuss the 'walking up the stairs' issue here...this is now more of a modelling issue rather than a modding one.

OK, just for my curiousity, could you upload the file, so I can see what you did?

I will see what I come up with regarding the stairs issue.

I'm pretty sure there's no problem climbing the stairs on the model as I made it. Is this one of the biuldings Deeza made by stacking one of my buildings on top of another? Has the model been scaled up? If so then it's going to be a problem because I really don't have time to remodel that staircase for a different scale.

OK, I found a solution. Read on.

The steps in the model don't seem to vary much from vanilla steps in terms of height. Actually vanilla ones are a bit higher. See this picture:



I checked in-game and I came to the conclusion that it was not the height of the steps that was causing problems, but the shape of the interior building. Both NPCs and the player character could theoretically run or walk up the stairs. However as the stairs turn left, the NPCs seemed to have tried to reach the grid point upstairs, ignoring the intermediate one.

I don't think that adding more steps would help.

OK, but I found a solution. I set the intermediate grid point to blue (of high priority). That "forces" any NPC to first go through this intermediate step, before they go upstairs. So no more walking on the table from Helga now. Unless we teach her can-can.

Ibsen, you have the latest file, so I can't change it. Here is a screenie.



However one thing effects the other. With just one grid point blue, Helga will react to everything by always going to that blue "bugger" before she goes anywhere else. But that can be fixed as well by adjusting the major grid points to blue, so she will always go to the nearest one first.

I believe when set up this way, it works fine.

One more thing, one more thing. There is actually another problem with Helga and it's my fault. The way I set the AI was I added Vendor package, so she could offer her services. It's type 'Travel'. Naturally it's in a conflict with The Wanderer pack. As a result Helga doesn't wander (as she uses the latest Travel pack, which is Vendor).

These 2 packs need to be merged. Again, you have the file. Please either adjust it or post the file, so I will do that.