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+---- Thread: Kielanai's work (/Thread-Kielanai-s-work)
No. - Kielanai - 09-09-2007
I tried, but it rejected my attempts, so I haven't gone back to it yet. Right now, characters must activate those little bench tabs beneath zabuton in order to "kneel". But it sounds like you are making progress, ... at least a little, ne? That would be so much better if you can get it to work.
Here are some of the faces updated to use Han race, rather than Breton, including the adjustments to Haruki's face above.
![[Image: Faces1.jpg]](http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/Kielanai/Oblivion%20Screenshots/AkaviriKojima7WIP/Faces1.jpg)
Doumo arigatougozaimasu. - Kielanai - 09-09-2007
:bow: Thanks for your honesty, but my intent was not to make an island full of beautiful people. My intent was to create a variety of people in age, appeal, and even a little unconventional racial blending. So, I have accomplished that.
(People can download "hot companions" mods if that is what they want. These people are meant to keep shop and populate the island, not run beauty pageants and bed the guests.)I have given up trying to duplicate Kielanai as an NPC. This is the closest I could come to her. I may continue to tweak here and there, but I'm ready to move on from working on NPC's. The "moveable" items need to be checked next. Tsukarata, na~ ... I'm ready to finish. -_-* A little more to go, though. Ganbatteiru.
![[Image: KielanaiNPC.jpg]](http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/Kielanai/Oblivion%20Screenshots/AkaviriKojima7WIP/KielanaiNPC.jpg)
- Kodama - 09-09-2007
I guess we can trust Intranetusa to be BRUTALLY honest
But what he says is true, some of them do look like she-males :pop: how did you get them to look like that? :confused:
Haruki Yamada's lips are way too big, reducing the size of the lips will make a huge difference.
Ugh ... - Kielanai - 09-09-2007
Hontou, "Brutal" desu ne. Shitsure ne~. :flamed:
Please don't judge Japan by Western culture. There are different definitions of what is beautiful here. For one thing, it is insulting to hear Westerners call Japanese men "gay" just because their fashion isn't what Western culture is used to. I see this so common in Western reviews of Japanese games, movies, and music, and places like "You Tube" where many Westerners comment about a Japanese man looking "gay" when he looks very "hot" and fashionable from Japanese perspective. Because it is so common a criticism, it's very irritating. Yes, MANY Japanese young men wear their hair long, dye their hair, wear hairbands or barretts in it, care about their fashion of clothing, pluck their eyebrows, wear earrings, and aren't afraid to wear pink. Just because this isn't current Western fashion doesn't make it "gay"! Don't make me pull out history books and point out that western culture also once considered it fashionable for their men to look "feminine", dressing in ribbons, silk, lace, high heels, and ruffles, ... even dresses. :bitch: Please respect other cultures enough to understand differences, rather than assuming there is something wrong with it if you are not used to it, ne?
Now, I realized Haruki's lips were too big, and I already fixed them. I am even looking for a shaggy hair that parts on side, which is more common than middle. And I have completely redone Etsuko for about the fifth time because I'm not happy with how masculine her face keeps turning out. And it is hard to get a child-like face using the face-gen, when child-like faces are preferred for both men and women here in Japan.
Try this. Open the face gen in the CS. Hit "generate". Did you get a lovely face? No? Try again. There aren't any lovely faces for quick-generated NPC's. Now, close it, open it again, and tick the "female" box. Use the "cropped" hairstyle because anything that is considered a "feminine" would be cheating. Hit "generate". Look at the face you got. That's right. You got a lighter complexion of a MAN's FACE! Face gen does not make females. Oblivion's women look like ugly men because that's what they are -- lighter colored male faces with a "feminine" hairstyle slapped on.
In order to make a female face, you have to spend some serious time and know female face differences -- chin needs to be thin, forehead needs to round foreward instead of sloping back. And face gen always leaves behind a beard shadow that must be blotted out manually in spite of the fact that you've clicked for a female character. Nostrils are always too wide, and noses are always too long and pointy. Lips are always extremely large and puffy, and in my opinion the absolutely most difficult thing to try to make look "natural". I agree, Oblivion's females are ugly. Oblivion's males are ugly, too. Oblivion women look and walk like men, and the elf women even sound like men. Oblivion men look like over-muscled circus freaks, in my opinion, even when they are supposed to be elves. Elves are supposed to be slender and willowy, ne? Here in Japan, slender, willowy, thin, soft, and young are more considered beautiful. Oblivion characters are none of these things. So you can imagine how I cringe when I work with these game bodies. I did the best I could with what I had. Considering I had to make a whole village, instead of spending all my time making one "hot" character for the PC to have virtual sex with, I think I did pretty well. :yes:
- Tlo1048 - 09-10-2007
I dont care what anyone else thinks, I think your NPCs are great. :goodjob:
And your character(the high elf with blue eyes) is gorgeous, but the hair doesn't really fit her. Mostly just the sides of the bangs. :yes:
Yes, I am making progress a little with the zabuton. I am making an island to test out my ideas, and I am going to test it on that isle. Email me the model for the zabuton, and I'll see if I can attach the .kf files to it via NifSkope.
- mirrored - 09-10-2007
Quite nice work Kielanai. Keep it up. :goodjob:
- Kodama - 09-10-2007
I guess you can be brutally honest yourself Kielanai
I don't know about Intranetusa, but i know many different cultures with "gay" looking men (like ancient Egypt where men would wear make-up, the Scots wearing a skirt without pants under it, and you already pointed out 17th century Europe, there are many more examples).
And yes, face gen has it's limitations, the problems with manly female characters in Oblivion are very well known :yes:
Even so, i always manage to get rid of the "beard shadow", and fixing the complexion is not difficult, but it does take a lot of time to create a decent looking female head.
Hmmm... i gues i would'nt be considered very handsome in Japan, even though i have long hair, i'm getting bald already and i'm not even 30 yet :eek:
Let's just say i look more like a rough and manly looking ronin, then a metrosexual prince charming
Hehe. "Metrosexual charm" ... - Kielanai - 09-10-2007
I like that phrase! Hehe. And, long hair is always good, in my opinion -- even when it is silver and gray.
But, yes! That is exactly what I mean about fashions! Throughout ages in many countries, what is considered "handsome" or "beautiful" changes. So, I very much dislike to see that kind of assumption based on clothing, especially when it's meant to be an insult, ne? ... Good one pulling out the Egyptian make-up, too. 
I didn't think of that, but make-up is definitely another one. And in Oblivion face-gen, putting a little eyeliner and eyeshadow on some of those faces is absolutely necessary, regardless of gender. >_<!Well, in Japan, as I guess every culture, the current beauty standards are difficult for the "average" person to attain -- part of the reason I want "average" people on Kojima. Not everyone can look like Ayumi Hamasaki or Gackt. The faces represented two older generation, two middle generation, and two younger generation. I had updated the faces that I knew needed more work (like Haruki and Etsuko) so I updated their screenshots as well now. Here are some others, though some of these faces have also undergone changes that I have not updated pictures yet. Also, took a strange screen of Kielanai and her "twin" -- freaky. :eek: They were both watching a clannfear the sea witch summoned, but I thought it was a good shot to compare their faces. Kielanai is more golden, has a more narrow chin. So, I may try to tweak her again, even though I say she is finished. -_-* I don't know.
Thanks again for encouragement, ... and honesty. Honesty will make me work harder to correct mistakes, but constructive criticism goes farther than brutal, ne?
This is only my second attempt to make NPCs and my first ever on this big scale with so many in a short time. Akavir project will someday know how that feels. I am thankful for that "generate" button, even if it is lacking in terms of beauty. Hopefully the things I learn doing this will help.Oh, and Tlo, the zabuton model is only retexture of the fighter's guild pad. If you can rig that for kneeling, then switching meshes should be easy -- like switching between a static stool and animated one.
![[Image: Twins.jpg]](http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/Kielanai/Oblivion%20Screenshots/AkaviriKojima7WIP/Twins.jpg)
Updated faces of Junko, Etsuko, Haruki.
![[Image: Faces1-1.jpg]](http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/Kielanai/Oblivion%20Screenshots/AkaviriKojima7WIP/Faces1-1.jpg)
Not updated yet ... Akio and Isamu both had mouth reductions. (Sounds serious, ne?) Isamu's skin tone has been lightened a little. Aoi's nose has been lengthened and widened. Ken'ichi's face has been redone slightly for darker, leaner look.
![[Image: Faces2-1.jpg]](http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/Kielanai/Oblivion%20Screenshots/AkaviriKojima7WIP/Faces2-1.jpg)
Chiyo was blinking in hers, so it will be updated eventually.
... And yes that is a bald woman. She is one of the monks at the temple, and female monks DO sometimes shave their heads.![[Image: Faces3.jpg]](http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/Kielanai/Oblivion%20Screenshots/AkaviriKojima7WIP/Faces3.jpg)
RE: Hehe. "Metrosexual charm" ... - ra5946 - 09-10-2007
I guess one thing I need you to clear up on the face data is: Is Kielanai your PC, or is she an NPC? I don't know how to find the face data for the actual PC, only the NPC's. Sorry if I mislead you. I have not actually used that program, but it seemed to fit your needs. There has got to be some way to do it. What about using your old save game data and putting it on the new one? I think thats how some people give other people their created personas. Now if it's an NPC, you can just select her from the list in the CS and open up her info. All those sliders for the face have an actual # and you can just copy those intergers to your "new" Kielanai.
I can't view your NPC's pics here at work, but I can only assume they are just as wonderful as all the other things you have done. Oblivion does make ugly females though. You can adjust things to make them look good, but it is very time consuming and a pain in the butt to do it for several NPC's. It's mostly in the texture. For some reason it puts facial hair looking shadowing on the females.
I have a full version of the real facegen and it has a setting for Asian looking faces. I used some of the settings to make the Geisha I had pictured on my progress post. It also makes a face texture and you can choose to not have blemishes. It makes a very nice texture and looked great on my Geisha. Asians seem to have such nice skin so I like to use facegens textures instead of Oblivions. If you want Kielanai, I can take a screenshot of my Asian facegen roll out and you can copy the numbers over to some of your NPC's. I can also give you some "clean" face textures as well if you want younger looking faces.
- Beremat - 09-10-2007
ROFL! That first guy in part 3 looks just like a guy I know from my school! XDDD
=realistic, I guess.