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Siegfried
Archduke
Registration Date: 2006.03.07
Posts: 2,690
Location: With Your Mom...
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A year and a half ago I made a city exterior for Jaga Talesin to use
for a never completed benchmark feature in his streamline mod. I had
hoped to complete it at a later date, but haven't had the time or
dedication to do it justice.
In a conversation with DA back after I first made it, he said it
reminded him of High Rock a great deal. Lather than let it sit on my
HD, I thought I'd see if you guys could use it.
Screens:
ScreenShot8 is a very early wip screen.
All told the town is roughly 40 buildings and an oversized castle. My
only condition for using the town in your mod is that the town's size
is not reduced, and you keep the redwoods that are growing in the the
town (I love those things). If you're interested, I'll upload a copy of
the mod so you guys can treck around and get a feel for things. |
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2008.10.04 03:33 |
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Braggi
Seigneur
Registration Date: 2006.09.23
Posts: 287
Location: B.C. Canada
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Hi Siegfreid!
I'm actually a little speechless here. 
This is a very generous offer. Thank you very much.
Regarding the redwoods, I think they are great. We have some concept
work done for a High Rock Red Cedar as well, which I would love to add
in to the city at strategic points for diversity and spice. If you look
at the concept for the Red Cedar it fits the area of the city quite
nicely - the concept design thread is here, second post down.
Based on what you have, the location that would fit it would likely be
Camlorn due to the overall terrain around the city and the fact that it
is a coastal location, which this calls for. In terms of our other
coastal cities, Northpoint not really a great fit - its terrain is a
pretty good but it is also very snowy and would likely require some
serious re-texturing work. Farrun is definitely not a fit due to the
same thing, along with very incompatible local terrain.
Regarding alterations - if we keep the redwoods (which we definitely
would) and keep your building count, how much would re-design leeway
would you be willing to allow us?
I'm mainly thinking in terms of getting the city in line with any Lore
we have gleaned for it and adapting it to the new height map when it is
completed. Camlorn does have more Lore then some of the other cities
and we'd like to leave lots of room for modder creativity in
development. Having your work to use as a design base would speed
things up exponentially, in terms of getting the city on the map.
If you want an idea of some of the adaptations we might face, have a look at the Camlorn city thread, here,
and review the proto-Lore and Lore in the first post that we have
collected up so far. Since you designed this city and know it's layout
intimately, you could advise us as to whether or not you believe it
would be compatible. Assuming it is, we could then run with it and get
a nice jump in developing one of the cities.
All in all, I must say that this is a wonderful offer. Thank you once more!
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2008.10.04 04:07 |
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Siegfried
Archduke
Registration Date: 2006.03.07
Posts: 2,690
Location: With Your Mom...
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About the Red Cedars, there are some White and Scotch pines scattered
around the town, you could easily replace those with your cedars.
As far as alterations are concerned, you are free to do as you want
with the upper class area on the cliff top and the castle. Expanding
the town elsewhere is fine to, and you easily add a lower class area
hanging off the side of the cliffs like TOYB mentioned. Replacing the
little chapel with a temple or expanding the town in other directions
is fine. What I really want to remain mostly intact are the dock areas
(which are what I am most proud of). |
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2008.10.05 23:39 |
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Deeza
Editor
Registration Date: 2008.06.03
Posts: 1,066
Location: Procrastination
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How about Northpoint?
There's no lore about that, so we could develop it whatever way we wanted.
We'd need to replace the trees with snowy ones and change the ground
texture, but it could work. Unless someone has a different vision for
Northpoint? |
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2008.10.05 23:49 |
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Deeza
Editor
Registration Date: 2008.06.03
Posts: 1,066
Location: Procrastination
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Unless, of course, Seigfried would like to claim a city and adapt this to that place.
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2008.10.06 00:15 |
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Braggi
Seigneur
Registration Date: 2006.09.23
Posts: 287
Location: B.C. Canada
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I suspect Siegrfried is quite up to his elbows in work on Skyrim at the moment.
Also gang, something should be made clear here: When the mod was
re-activated, we promised both ourselves and Razorwing that we would
not pull anyone away from active Beyond Cyrodiil mods. (There is a
mention of this in High rock FAQ in the Announcements Forum - scroll down to the question that reads "Q: How much is going to change from the old project?")
Much as I would welcome another person's assistance (especially someone
who knows their modding the way the good Siegfried does) we need to
honor that commitment to remain ethical. There is also the fact that we
want to play all the mods when they get done!
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2008.10.07 22:15 |
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Deeza
Editor
Registration Date: 2008.06.03
Posts: 1,066
Location: Procrastination
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Understood.
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2008.10.07 22:56 |
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Braggi
Seigneur
Registration Date: 2006.09.23
Posts: 287
Location: B.C. Canada
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I'm sorry you got that impression, Siegrfried. We actually are quite
interested in the city. The main thing that we need at the moment is to
find out what a "top-down" view of it would look like. That way, we can
then see which of the undeveloped areas it might adapt to.
Also, there is the fact that if we use it, the terrain will force
changes upon us, whether we like it or not. This was the main reason
for my asking what kind of latitude you would permit for alterations.
I personally would like to see such a generous offer accepted. if at
all possible and workable. As mod leader, I can see tremendous design
advantages for any of the unclaimed city-states if we have this to use
a modding base.
Once again, thank you for the offer and please be patient as we get the details ironed out - we have a lot on the go here.
My reply about your being busy with Skyrim, was simply to let Deeza
know of a mod policy regarding active modders which I hadn't had the
time to inform him of previously. In this case, you are offering
something already developed and not looking to put the majority of your
time into High Rock, which is what the policy is meant to cover. So,
there are no restrictions on are use of you excellent work, save those
we settle on with you here.
Hope that gets everything clear!
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Braggi: 2008.10.10 06:15.
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2008.10.10 05:12 |
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Siegfried
Archduke
Registration Date: 2006.03.07
Posts: 2,690
Location: With Your Mom...
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Overview
Uptown
Docks
Town
Castle
I opened it up in the CS for the first time in over a year today, and I
found that the city had some invalid cell coordinate errors. I don't
think they would persist if the cities architecture were copied onto
another worldspace and then the old worldspace with said errors
deleted, but that's not my area of expertise.
Braggi, would you like me to upload a copy of the city so you take a look at it yourself, and form an opinion based on that?
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2008.10.11 03:15 |
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Braggi
Seigneur
Registration Date: 2006.09.23
Posts: 287
Location: B.C. Canada
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This is very helpful!
I like the layout too - a lot actually.
A question - was this city designed for use in a separate worldspace ar
as an "open cities" type of location? The docks would of course need
placing on the height map to work. However, the closed in portion of
the city would appear to work fine in a separate worldspace of its own,
since it is fully walled.
Right off the top I can see the following things that need to be considered:
1. Camlorn is located on the edge of some hilly/mountainous
terrain, on a down-slope that ends at the ocean. There may actually be
some "terraced" effects to the architecture of the city streets. What
would that do to your current work as it stand?
2. T use this in-game, we would have to roatate the city to match the
coast line. The overview appears to show the city being lined up so
that the docks are due east, whereas the geography will need the exact
opposite. Would it be a problem if we were to rotate the whole thing
about 180 degrees when developing and placing it?
3. Do we have any latitude in moving the castle to match the Lore
location of it? (This is a minor point and if it would wreck your
design, we can work around it if need be).
With all of that said, please fell free to attach a copy of the location for testing. I'm very curious about it.
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2008.10.15 21:56 |
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nick_op
Baron
Registration Date: 2008.05.02
Posts: 446
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I was thinking - earlier in this thread TOYB mentioned that he though
we should use new models. What about if new models were made to be a
similar size to that of those used already, then just used to replace
the existing layout. I'm pretty sure the CS has a find and replace
function.
With this method we could have unique architecture while retaining the
layout of the city, and just a few tweaks would likely be needed. It
would certainly be much faster than doing the city from scratch.
Just an idea.
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2008.10.15 22:31 |
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Siegfried
Archduke
Registration Date: 2006.03.07
Posts: 2,690
Location: With Your Mom...
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There's no problem with adding the walled area or castle to seperate worldspaces. Right now they are together in one.
1)The castle and walled area are on one level atop cliffs, the docks
and town are on another. It's possible to expand terraces off the side
of the walled area.
2) If the land stays the same to match a rotation, there's no problem if things face a different direction.
3) How much of a change will changing the latitude of the castle bring?
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2008.10.16 05:27 |
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Braggi
Seigneur
Registration Date: 2006.09.23
Posts: 287
Location: B.C. Canada
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I'd hazard a uess that we might need to move it between 20 and 35
degrees in one direction or the other. (I'm visualizing as if looking
down from above... say... wait a minute... let me see here...)
I'm going to grab a copy of the top-down view you posted and play with it a bit then re-post to help illustrate.
OK, now if you look at the altered image (pardon my rather crude
additions) I have attached, here are things we need to account for if
the city is going to fit the terrain. Fiirst off, I rotated and flipped
the city so it would roughly match the facing we'll need. After that,
we have the following to consider:
1. Angle of the Camlorn coast: The entire coast line angles off
at approximately the direction indicated. Basically, it would mean that
there would be land filling in some of the space where your label and
arrow are for the house expansions. (Those would work better with the
terrain if moved to the opposite side.)
2. Rotate castle in this direction: Basically, the two arrows
here indicate a range of rotation possible. The terrain of both your
map and the height map would dictate how much of this would be used.
(Also, we have to keep in mind where the roads are going to go as an
added factor.)
3. Slopes upwards: The angle indicated is likely the approximate
direction of the mountain foothills, which Camlorn will be hugging. The
eastern wall will likely be elevated above the western, with the north
and south following any sloping in the terrain.
Now as far as the city Lore goes that you asked about, here is some
quotes from the collected TES1 information on the city's layout:
- Temple of Sethiete was named the "Brotherhood of Seth" in TES1 and located near docks (This has to be added, since it is Lore-specific. Would that be all right?)
- City layout would appear to be reasonably in-line with the layout of
the coast it was on, with the dock to the city's north west, matching
the angle of the Eltheric Ocean's coast on this part of the peninsula (Your docks are actually fine as they are for this)
- Palace for the city is located on the western edge of the city, overlooking the Eltheric Ocean. (This is the reason for the requested rotation - to get the castle closer to the ocean's edge.)
- Two main gates are indicated, one to the north (likely heading for Shornhelm and Northpoint) and one to the west. (How are you with adding a second gate northward - would this be all right for us to do?)
- The city appears to have a central park, which contains trees and a lone fountain near it's center. (Looks like you already covered this, but please
correct me if I am wrong here.)
- One of the TES1 temples (located directly to the east of the western
city gate) is named "The Order of the Knights of Hope" (a possible
knightly order for the mod?) (Room to add this in if needed?)
The rest can be adpated to your current layout pretty easily - these
are the important points to give the city it's "feel", if you will.
What do you think?
Braggi has attached this image (reduced version):
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2008.10.16 10:16 |
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Siegfried
Archduke
Registration Date: 2006.03.07
Posts: 2,690
Location: With Your Mom...
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Slopes and angling the city should not be a problem, as for rotating
the castle-- I'm not really sure its worth it, if you want to keep the
bridge its going to look awkward at the angle you suggested, and you're
going to create a whole mess of trouble for yourself if you rotate the
whole castle because that will set tiles on a very strange angle and
throw off the snap to grid functionality.
It's something I would advise against, and frankly I don't know that
any fan who played the mod would realize the difference. Ultimately its
your call, I can upload the mod now for you if you would like. |
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2008.10.22 03:54 |
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and probably won't be able to again until the end of this month.