 FLESH's Speed Tree Models |
FLESH
Archduke
Registration Date: 23.06.2006
Posts: 2,824
Location: Ireland
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08.04.2008 17:38 |
    
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FLESH
Archduke
Registration Date: 23.06.2006
Posts: 2,824
Location: Ireland
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| RE: FLESH's Speed Tree Models |
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No worries, I still have some mod powers hehe. I'm not sure how to get
them the same way as JAA did, thats sort of what I aimed to do, but . .
. .
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08.04.2008 21:35 |
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JAAdventurer
First Knight
Registration Date: 16.03.2008
Posts: 130
Location: Not here, but not really over there either.
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All I did with my trees was in Blender, starting with a cylinder and
extruding, subdividing edges, and merging points. I now have a copy of
speedtree, but have not attempted to learn it as of yet. |
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08.04.2008 21:39 |
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FLESH
Archduke
Registration Date: 23.06.2006
Posts: 2,824
Location: Ireland
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No I should have been more clear, I meant the pictures 
Don't let me near a copy of blender, not after what happened last time, as a result 5 kittens died.
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08.04.2008 21:41 |
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JAAdventurer
First Knight
Registration Date: 16.03.2008
Posts: 130
Location: Not here, but not really over there either.
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Not too many kittens will perish. (I hope)
As for how I did the pictures: I just got a good angle in the working
window, hit print screen to place a snapshot of my screen view in the
clipboard, opened paint, pasted, moved, and cropped the image. Then I
just added my pictures as attachments. 
Hardly seemed like there was anything to it.
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08.04.2008 23:47 |
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windsurfer
Seigneur
Registration Date: 03.10.2006
Posts: 639
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Lady Nerevar
how hard is speedtree to learn? |
The easiet software in the world. So 2 mins.
I agree the first one sucks + I thought we had sorted out that speedtree trees are not what we need!! They are too unflexible.
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09.04.2008 10:32 |
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Gez
Guardian
Registration Date: 19.06.2006
Posts: 51
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Alasdair
I'm not 100% convinced speedtree is the best way to do an gigantic
tree, The game engines approach to collision for speedtree models is
pretty useless once you ramp the size up, we had some issues with
scaled up redwood trees in Skyrim. I think you would be better making
it with multiple sections (think giant tree tileset here) in a modeling
app, no matter how many kittens must perish as a result. |
| quote: |
Originally posted by Lady Nerevar
the main thing bothering me about the first one (exept for the horrible
texture resolution) is the lack of small branches. currently its just
the trunk, secondary branches, and a few 3rd ones, but all the small
ones that carry the actual leaves are missing. this really makes the
tree look like its a normal tree scaled to a huge size instead of being
an actual huge tree. also, it makes the canopy look really splotchy and
fake :/
the other tree looks good though, I think both of them are a great start. how hard is speedtree to learn? |
The idea should probably to have a giant tree sstatic tileset, and make
branches with speedtree. Then when assembling them in the exterior
place the branches all around the statics. |
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09.04.2008 14:11 |
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windsurfer
Seigneur
Registration Date: 03.10.2006
Posts: 639
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Thats what I thought. the problem is speedtree models can't be rotated
so you would have to make a branches in all directions. Althoughs thats
pretty easy rotate then just have a random seed in Speedtree to create
lots of different branches.
I still think a sort of tree tileset would work.
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09.04.2008 15:03 |
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Gez
Guardian
Registration Date: 19.06.2006
Posts: 51
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| quote: |
Originally posted by windsurfer
I still think a sort of tree tileset would work. |
Just for the big, naked branches. When you need to put lots of little
branches and leaves, then you've got to use speedtree. Otherwise,
either your computer will commit suicide, or you will be restricted to
making things that don't really look like a forest.
Especially for something like Valenwood, which can't afford to look
like the forests in Cyrodiil if it wants to still be Valenwood. It's a
very dense forest of very tall trees, the branches and leaves are as
many as the grains of sand on the beach. If you were to model a beach
by using misc items for each grains rather than just a sandy floor
texture, your computer's circuitry would jump out of the case and
strangle you. Same thing for the leaves in a forest. A tileset is not
feasible for them, too high-poly and too repetitive. |
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09.04.2008 15:12 |
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FLESH
Archduke
Registration Date: 23.06.2006
Posts: 2,824
Location: Ireland
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Wow, more replies than I expected, and sadly mostly about what I said NOT to comment
The first one (meaning picture) = completely useless, I just wanted to
show you guys how far me and GW got with Falinesti, which was in-game.
And that it was NOT good enough, and Speed Tree was not going to be
used for Falinesti.
Then the other pictures, which was what I wanted you to concentrate on,
are some trees which can be used in VW, and my start on the Graht-Oaks.
Most of these posts seemed to be about Falinesti, so let me just say
that Speed Tree is not going to be used for it 
EDIT: Some news, I just got SpeedTree V4. It is 100x better than what I
am using. The changes I make happen instantaneously and I got it to
around 2 miles in height in 1 second. I'm exploring it right now.
This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by FLESH: 09.04.2008 16:40.
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09.04.2008 15:20 |
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FC4
First Knight
Registration Date: 09.04.2008
Posts: 104
Location: La Florida!
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If I may put in my two sense?
Why don't we make the large trees, like Falinesti, in ways we make
buildings in Morrowind? Essentially, in pieces? Have the trunk made,
with physics and all, and then have branch designs, then secondary
branches, then third branches, in a manner like Lady Nerevar says. The
secondary and primary branches would be leafless, and the tertiary
would have the leaves. We could build the tree city in pieces, in
sections, designing the network of branches and roads through tiles.
It could even be used loosely in the forests, giving more detail and
opportunity for uniqueness with each tree throughout the forest.
__________________
Ze one and only...
FC4 
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09.04.2008 17:59 |
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windsurfer
Seigneur
Registration Date: 03.10.2006
Posts: 639
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What are the new features? Are the compatble with the CS?
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09.04.2008 22:18 |
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chris 07
First Knight
Registration Date: 02.07.2007
Posts: 154
Location: Valenwood
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| quote: |
Originally posted by windsurfer
What are the new features? Are the compatble with the CS? |
Yeah it may be better but that doesnt mean that we're
out of the woods yet....hell we're still making them but thats beside
the point.
__________________
Proud Valenwood Modder! 
3 claimed
2 finished!
(Soon to be changed!)
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10.04.2008 01:05 |
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FLESH
Archduke
Registration Date: 23.06.2006
Posts: 2,824
Location: Ireland
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New features mostly to do with processing, but also a much better way
to do textures (can add many different maps, and have layers etc.).
Roots, option to gnarl trees, add age etc. And a very noticeable thing
is that they don't have an open bottom anymore, that is replaced by
roots now, which you can also edit, make very big etc.
And a person already imported ST V4 trees into the CS. So I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work
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10.04.2008 17:31 |
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llamaranger
Baron
Registration Date: 06.05.2007
Posts: 439
Location: York, England
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do you think it would be possible to make mangrove trees with the new
version (i seem to remember it was deemed inposibble with previous
version)? Not really on topic, but mangroves are awesome (and more
importantly cover a lrage portion of the south of BM
).
Edd
__________________
An Old Man is sitting on a Bench eating Soup. He is a fool.
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10.04.2008 20:08 |
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Mormacil
Herma-Mora the Woodland Man
Registration Date: 15.08.2006
Posts: 2,250
Location: Netherlands
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I say the center is true rainforest/jungle and the south is a bit more tropical, at least in the west.
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10.04.2008 22:07 |
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FLESH
Archduke
Registration Date: 23.06.2006
Posts: 2,824
Location: Ireland
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I'll try and see if mangroves are possible, but I'm very confident they should be.
EDIT: Wow, well *cough*. I was trying to make some mangroves, and I
realised I could make something much better. So I give you Falinesti
V0.1. The first pic is of the inside branch system, which doesn't
really matter as this is the exterior model, and the interior is meant
to be a tileset. The the second pic is of the whole tree. I went
underground to show you the roots. Now don't let the pictures fool you.
This is one massive beast, coming in at 1.2 miles in height and a mile
of branch span. That little bench that is beside the trees in Speed
tree for reference is nowhere to be seen, long engulfed by this massive
beast. It will undergo many changes, and might indeed not be the final
exterior model used. But I want your opinions.
 
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by FLESH: 11.04.2008 18:11.
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11.04.2008 17:27 |
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chris 07
First Knight
Registration Date: 02.07.2007
Posts: 154
Location: Valenwood
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Not bad but it still needs some work. Since this is 0.1 version then I guess we dont have much of a problem.
__________________
Proud Valenwood Modder!
3 claimed
2 finished!
(Soon to be changed!)
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12.04.2008 00:17 |
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FLESH
Archduke
Registration Date: 23.06.2006
Posts: 2,824
Location: Ireland
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RM: Thats not really important as this is just the exterior model. I
can get it to look like it can support housing but we aren't actually
going to use it for that, if we use it at all. Plus, here's an update.
With nice little (hah) shadows on he ground.
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12.04.2008 00:36 |
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windsurfer
Seigneur
Registration Date: 03.10.2006
Posts: 639
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I like the roots but the tree's branches doesn't look like houses and
paths could be built on them? Also again LOD problems!! |
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12.04.2008 12:32 |
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FLESH
Archduke
Registration Date: 23.06.2006
Posts: 2,824
Location: Ireland
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Thanks 
What LOD problems? And I'm not done with the branches yet.
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12.04.2008 13:52 |
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FLESH
Archduke
Registration Date: 23.06.2006
Posts: 2,824
Location: Ireland
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No, this me trying for Falinesti. I figured out some simple work
arounds that let us do it with SpeedTree, anyone else is free to try
I'm just saying this is my attempt at Falinesti. And the branches are
as you say, if you look inside it literally looks like someones drains
snaking around each other. I'm no where near finished yet though.
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12.04.2008 17:54 |
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windsurfer
Seigneur
Registration Date: 03.10.2006
Posts: 639
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The fact that when you walk 10m from the tree you have a massive billboard stuck there!!!
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12.04.2008 17:59 |
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FLESH
Archduke
Registration Date: 23.06.2006
Posts: 2,824
Location: Ireland
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12.04.2008 18:00 |
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FLESH
Archduke
Registration Date: 23.06.2006
Posts: 2,824
Location: Ireland
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I'm not exactly sure. In SpeedTree I can test the LOD, and make it
pretty much the same as it is now in far away view. But the CS just
uses a billboard? The problem I see with making the canopy denser is
that in DitF Scotty sees people walking about on falinesti. He must
have been a good ways away though, so there needs to be some sort of
holes in the canopy right? Making it denser is not hard at all though.
Just up the leaf frequency.
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13.04.2008 01:06 |
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chris 07
First Knight
Registration Date: 02.07.2007
Posts: 154
Location: Valenwood
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About the roots, why not make it so that some roots come out of the
ground making arches around the surrounding area? That would be cool. 
__________________
Proud Valenwood Modder!
3 claimed
2 finished!
(Soon to be changed!)
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13.04.2008 05:37 |
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FLESH
Archduke
Registration Date: 23.06.2006
Posts: 2,824
Location: Ireland
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Something I'm trying to figure out about the roots. In SpeedTree they
show up. But in the CS it seems to add them as another layer of
branches, which they are, but it adds them to the top, and I can't
figure out why.
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13.04.2008 14:28 |
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FLESH
Archduke
Registration Date: 23.06.2006
Posts: 2,824
Location: Ireland
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Thank you. Any ideas on what to change? Should I add more leaves like
Lady N says? I'm wondering if that will actually obscure the view of
the branches, so that they aren't visible.
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16.04.2008 16:00 |
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FLESH
Archduke
Registration Date: 23.06.2006
Posts: 2,824
Location: Ireland
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The thing to keep in mind is that it must give the illusion it can
support housing. The interiors will be different models. And the
exterior LOD models we place on this can be scaled down, not by much,
just enough to make it look good.
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16.04.2008 16:22 |
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JAAdventurer
First Knight
Registration Date: 16.03.2008
Posts: 130
Location: Not here, but not really over there either.
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Does this mean I don't have to model the beast by hand? 
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16.04.2008 17:24 |
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FLESH
Archduke
Registration Date: 23.06.2006
Posts: 2,824
Location: Ireland
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It's completely your choice JAA. I'd prefer to test out the new
SpeedTree, but having two versions might come in very use full if one
or the other fails, if you want to continue then continue
You can have a go at the Interiors if you want to, but that would be
best when we have a finalised Exterior model. You are the modeler, you
choose what to model. Don't forget Insanity Soul and keep up your
enthusiasm for clutter
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16.04.2008 17:28 |
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windsurfer
Seigneur
Registration Date: 03.10.2006
Posts: 639
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I still dont think ST is the best option for it. Yes its a pile of piss
to use and anyone can make a tree with it but I just think its got to
many limitation the majot factoir being the Billboard issue.
Also WTF are some of JAA posts in the archive? They were only posted a few days ago?
Another thing how do you make a thread important after its being posted?
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16.04.2008 17:48 |
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FLESH
Archduke
Registration Date: 23.06.2006
Posts: 2,824
Location: Ireland
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We can export the tree into max, and might be able to turn it into a
model (we can also turn leaves into meshes). Anyone can use it but
takes years of practise to get anything near the quality of their
official tree libraries. And we have yet to see how it would work with
a billboard in this new version.
I separated some spam from a thread and archived it incase anyone felt the need to read it, keep threads on topic
To make a thread important scroll down to the bottom of the page, and go into admin options, choose the option stick/unstick
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16.04.2008 17:53 |
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JAAdventurer
First Knight
Registration Date: 16.03.2008
Posts: 130
Location: Not here, but not really over there either.
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I don't think I can archive my own posts. I saw those and was wondering
what they were doing there. Someon who has the power can just delete
them, as the ones I saw there were pointless out of context.
I've become distracted with my smaller models, so I probably won't be doing any trees for a bit.
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16.04.2008 19:48 |
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