 Morrowind, test 1 |
Rodan
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It's an older version, without the teleports but begins the first landrun with the CS
Morrowind
Edit 2006.07.28 09:03
There is some information I did not give. Reich Parkeep is at (-57,15),
Blacklight is at (-47,50). I might have to change the teleport icons.
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28.07.2006 03:57 |
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Razorwing
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Ok. So this is from before we decided to use a 400% landmass scale
compared to the TES3 mod. Or did I misunderstand things?
Edit 2006.07.29 02:14
Because the landmass will be 400% of what it was in TES3. There was
overwhelming popular support for that in the poll. Coupled with an
Oblivion cell being one fourth of a TES3 cell, each cell on the TES3
maps equals 256 Oblivion cells. So, Reich Parkeep would lie somewhere
in the general ballpark of 2500 cells west of Steadhelm.
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28.07.2006 09:43 |
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noremorse
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2500 cells, meaning directly horizontal? How many cells across is Cyrodiil?
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29.07.2006 02:19 |
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TheImperialDragon
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Wait, a quarter of a Morrowind cell is an Oblivion cell, so doesn't that mean it is 4 cells? 2 wide and 2 across?
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29.07.2006 02:21 |
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DarkAsmodeous
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I think razorwing just put it to the third power 
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29.07.2006 02:25 |
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TheImperialDragon
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That'd be 64?
Fourth power... 256...
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29.07.2006 02:25 |
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DarkAsmodeous
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DARN, I knew it was the fourth, but for some reason I was thinking 16 X 16.
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29.07.2006 02:37 |
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Razorwing
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Math isn't my strong suit. 
But the discussion was right there
on The Tavern and we talked about it for six weeks, with the last post
made just nine days ago. With six weeks of discussion and 17 votes in
favor of a 16x16 cell ratio I would hope the matter has been discussed
thoroughly, and decided upon. 
noremorse: I think a square area around Lake Rumore is about 256
cells, so yep, a 16x16 ratio will put a cap in that scale's ass he he.
That was discussed a lot as well, if I recall correctly, how
unrealistic it was to see the spire of the Imperial City from half the
Province. I know that when I was coming down from Bruma and saw that
spire I was immediately struck with the feeling that I was trekking
through the mountains north of the Imperial City, rather than exploring
the northern reaches of the Cyrodiil Province. I think it'll be really
cool to actually get lost in our wilderness and actually feel like
you're a long way from civilization. 
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29.07.2006 03:27 |
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TheImperialDragon
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400 %... that would be 16 cells unless I'm mistaken? Because really, if
4 is a Morrowind cell, and we want 4 times larger (400%), then wouldn't
that mean 16 cells? (4 x 4)
Damn, that would mean that 256 cells is actually... 6400% !!!!! 
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29.07.2006 04:25 |
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DarkAsmodeous
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HOLY CRAP?! How many cells was the Morrowind one?!
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29.07.2006 04:31 |
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Razorwing
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TheImperialDragon:
Yes, that the size of the new landmass is 400% compared to the old
landmass. An exterior cell in Oblivion is one fourth the size of an
exterior cell in TES3, so to get to just 100% scale we'd need 4x4
cells. And since we wanted 400%, it equates to 16x16 or 256 cells.
DarkAsmodeous: Including Blacklight I think it was around 240
exterior cells. But to make matters more interesting, our landmass in
TES3 never reached as far west as the border to Skyrim. At least the
south part of the landmass didn't.
Come to think of it, I think the old grid map I put together could
actually work. Just ignore the icons with the city layouts, as they
aren't part of the scale, and think of each square as 16x16 Oblivion
cells:
http://www.silgrad.com/oblivion/images/map06/index.html
What do you guys think?
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29.07.2006 04:49 |
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TheImperialDragon
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Okay, if I'm interpretting you correctly, you are saying that one
Morrowind cell is the same size of the black shaded area in my first
pic if the area is in OB cells.
Now, if that is the case, 200% of a Morrowind cell would be the size of
the Red shaded area because it is twice as big (200% by definition).
300% is the yellow shaded area...
Cyan is four times larger than the black shaded area, so it is 400 %.
So... In the second pic, it is sixteen times larger than a Morrowind cell, thus it is 1600%...
Now, 16 x 16 (256 if you will) would have been 64 times larger than the
Morrowind cell, meaning 6400%. I would have drawn that one, but the map
was too small.
Now, if we multiply the number of Morrowind cells by the scale we want
to increase, we end up with 240 x 64 = 15360 Morrowind cells worth. How
are we going to populate the land to make it interesting? BTW, that is
61440 Oblivion cells...
TheImperialDragon has attached these images (downsized versions):
  
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29.07.2006 05:17 |
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noremorse
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We want it 4 times the size of a Morrowind cell. Making the black
square enlarged to fit the cyan shaded part. Thus making Ebbedin 4
times larger than the original TES3 island.
noremorse has attached this image (downsized version):
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29.07.2006 05:36 |
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TheImperialDragon
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But Razor's suggesting 256 Oblivion cells to a Morrowind cell.
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29.07.2006 05:37 |
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DarkAsmodeous
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Razor was mistaken, a common one too, he was quadrupling the height and width, rather than the cell count.
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29.07.2006 05:44 |
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Razorwing
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I don't know if I made a mistake, but the outcome of the poll is clear: 16x16 cells. Like I mention in my initial post in that thread, "I
feel we would need to increase the scale at least 300% compared to the
4x4 example mentioned initially, so that one Morrowind cell is
recreated as 12x12 Oblivion cells." Though the voters favored 400% instead of 300%, and in hindsight so did I.
| quote: |
Originally posted by TheImperialDragon
Okay, if I'm interpretting you correctly, you are saying that one
Morrowind cell is the same size of the black shaded area in my first
pic if the area is in OB cells.
Now, if that is the case, 200% of a Morrowind cell would be the size of
the Red shaded area because it is twice as big (200% by definition).
300% is the yellow shaded area...
Cyan is four times larger than the black shaded area, so it is 400 %.
So... In the second pic, it is sixteen times larger than a Morrowind cell, thus it is 1600%...
Now, 16 x 16 (256 if you will) would have been 64 times larger than the
Morrowind cell, meaning 6400%. I would have drawn that one, but the map
was too small. |
Might be easier if we just say 16x16 instead of confusing each other with percentages
(well, confusing me anyway)
The island Ebbedin is situated on the old mod is about equal in size to
half a TES3 cell, give or take. It doesn't have to be very precise
since there's water around it, so there's nothing for it to line up
with and such, but it should be in the general ballpark to fit with the
16x16 scale. So, that's why I suggested recreating it's shape on a 128
cell grid, because 128 cells would tantamount to half a TES3 cell
according to the scale we decided on for Oblivion.
| quote: |
Originally posted by TheImperialDragon
Now, if we multiply the number of Morrowind cells by the scale we want
to increase, we end up with 240 x 64 = 15360 Morrowind cells worth. How
are we going to populate the land to make it interesting? BTW, that is
61440 Oblivion cells... |
Same way as Bethesda did. Forests, rocks, plants, wild animals,
anything you'd typically find in nature. It would all be generated,
naturally, and hopefully looking Morrowindy. Presumably that issue can
wait a bit because the basic landmass, what I guess one would call the
heightmap, is the important bit as far as I can tell. That'll let us
set up all kinds of stuff like little villages, farms, roads, tombs,
dungeons, and so on.
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29.07.2006 05:48 |
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DarkAsmodeous
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That is almost exactl the same as elsweyr and valenwood (well not realy) We have 60543
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29.07.2006 05:53 |
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TheImperialDragon
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But 400% implies 4 * 4 cells... At least that is what it implies...
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29.07.2006 05:54 |
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Razorwing
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| quote: |
Originally posted by TheImperialDragon
But 400% implies 4 * 4 cells... At least that is what it implies... |
Do you think it would be a good idea to run another poll on the subject?
I'm fine with either way.
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29.07.2006 06:02 |
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DarkAsmodeous
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It was a confusion of tems 16 * 16 has been comfirmed as the official size
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29.07.2006 06:02 |
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noremorse
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| quote: |
Originally posted by TheImperialDragon
But 400% implies 4 * 4 cells... At least that is what it implies... |
400% of a Morrowind cell.
That makes it 4 times 1 MW cell = 4x4 cells in Morrowind, in which converts to 16x16 OB cells.
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29.07.2006 06:03 |
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TheImperialDragon
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No, four Morrowind cells... is 2 * 2 Morrowind cells, not 4 * 4 because that would make 16 Morrowind cells.
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29.07.2006 06:05 |
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Razorwing
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Cool
| quote: |
Originally posted by TheImperialDragon:
No, four Morrowind cells... is 2 * 2 cells, not 4 * 4 because that would make 16 Morrowind cells. |
We want to make our landmass 400% the size it was in ST: Morrowind.
To do that we need to use 16x16 Oblivion cells.
Because four Oblivion cell equals one Morrowind cell.
Rodan, how soon would you estimate we can we expect to see it?
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29.07.2006 06:05 |
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TheImperialDragon
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Ask ANY math professor or mathematician, and you'll see that 400% the size of a Morrowind cell is 4 cells, not 16 cells (4 * 4)
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29.07.2006 06:08 |
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DarkAsmodeous
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ID is correct, however it is a moot point, because regardless of the terms, its 16 * 16.
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29.07.2006 06:10 |
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Razorwing
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| quote: |
Originally posted by TheImperialDragon
Ask ANY math professor or mathematician, and you'll see that 400% the size of a Morrowind cell is 4 cells, not 16 cells (4 * 4) |
Yes?
If we make it 400% then each Morrowind cell becomes four Morrowind cells.
Since four Oblivion cells equal one Morrowind cell, it becomes sixteen cells.
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29.07.2006 06:12 |
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TheImperialDragon
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16 cells as in the Cyan one, then yes, that is what I mean. 
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29.07.2006 06:13 |
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noremorse
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Razorwing
| quote: |
Originally posted by TheImperialDragon
Ask ANY math professor or mathematician, and you'll see that 400% the size of a Morrowind cell is 4 cells, not 16 cells (4 * 4) |
Yes?
If we make it 400% then each Morrowind cell becomes four Morrowind cells.
Since four Oblivion cells equal one Morrowind cell, it becomes sixteen cells. |
= 8 * 8, so yes. Are we not confused anymore?
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29.07.2006 06:16 |
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TheImperialDragon
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How do you get that?
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29.07.2006 06:17 |
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noremorse
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Omg, I'm confused again. Ignore that last post please. 
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29.07.2006 06:18 |
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Razorwing
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He he he. 
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29.07.2006 06:22 |
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TheImperialDragon
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Alright, I'll be clear:
OO
OO
Oblivion cells = O
OO
OO = Morrowind cell.
OOOO
OOOO
OOOO
OOOO is 400% times the surface of a Morrowind cell (2 * 2 Morrowind cells in length)
OOOOOOOO is 400% the length of a Morrowind cell (noremorse, I think I catch what you're saying now)
OOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOO is 1600% the area of a Morrowind cell, and is 8 * 8 OB cells.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO is 800% of a Morrowind cell lengthwise, but area-wise,
we're 6400% larger than a Morrowind cell (16 * 16 OB cells)
So either way, 400% cannot correspond to 16 * 16...
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29.07.2006 06:24 |
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DarkAsmodeous
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ID, your third one is 400% the length, and 200% the height.
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29.07.2006 06:25 |
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TheImperialDragon
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| quote: |
Originally posted by DarkAsmodeous
ID, your third one is 400% the length, and 200% the height. |
Yes, I know, I'm just showing the difference, and avoiding confusion, here I'll fix it so that it is clearer what I'm saying.
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29.07.2006 06:27 |
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noremorse
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I hope nobody from outside the regulars on this board are willing to read this, because it may drive them away. 
So if we want to be 4 times that of a Morrowind cell, and four OB cells equals one cell, then we want:
OOOO
OOOO
OOOO
OOOO
Correct?
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29.07.2006 06:27 |
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DarkAsmodeous
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Exactly, however Razorwing has said, it doesn't matter what oyu call it, it's 16 * 16 now.
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29.07.2006 06:28 |
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TheImperialDragon
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| quote: |
Originally posted by noremorse
I hope nobody from outside the regulars on this board are willing to read this, because it may drive them away.
So if we want to be 4 times that of a Morrowind cell, and four OB cells equals one cell, then we want:
OOOO
OOOO
OOOO
OOOO
Correct? |
YES!!!
| quote: |
Originally posted by DarkAsmodeous
Exactly, however Razorwing has said, it doesn't matter what oyu call it, it's 16 * 16 now. |
NO!!! 
What do you mean, 400 % can't mean 16 * 16 which was in brackets
(secondary way of putting it) so what I'm saying is the poll was
unclear!
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29.07.2006 06:30 |
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DarkAsmodeous
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He offered to run another poll, and I have backed you up on the fact
that 400% is not 16*16 the whole time, however 16*16 is what we are
doing, sow why are we still doing this? RW tried a while ago to say ok,
whatever, its 16 * 16 anyway.
By we I mean EV.
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This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by DarkAsmodeous: 29.07.2006 06:35.
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29.07.2006 06:33 |
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TheImperialDragon
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Which is what I was saying, I was trying to convince you 'cause I
thought you misunderstood, but let's start another poll, just to be on
the safe side to make sure people meant what they said.
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29.07.2006 06:36 |
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noremorse
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Good, but we need to be absolutely clear this time.
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29.07.2006 06:41 |
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Morrowind, test 1
