 Ayleid Tribes? |
IAMTHEEMPEROR
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I was wondering if Valenwood will be featuring any Ayleid Tribes. They
would be dotted in the middle of nowhere, and some would look like Wood
Elves more than they are Ayleids.
In lore, it stares that after Alessia took power, the Ayleids ran away
to other provinces, mostly Valenwood. In Valenwood they mixed and
slowly faded into the Wood Elf population. However, some Ayleids
remained isolated from the rest of the world in tribes, and it is known
that pureblood Ayleids are still out there. Some of these tribes were
supposed to be in Cyrodiil, but they weren't, so will Valenwood include
them? 
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29.11.2006 02:35 |
 
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Mormacil
Herma-Mora the Woodland Man
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I'm not sure. But indeed, maybe in the center. I think this depends on
the amount of work. And we have to let it match Knights of the Nine new
lore 
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29.11.2006 08:33 |
 
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raggidman
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The Lore says, so apparently they will be in - if someone does the
extensive research needed to make a proper job, and then does the rest
of the work too. 
Why not in Cyrodiil you ask? Can offer you maybes on that:
In Cyrodiil you would not have been so in tune with nature, and the Ayelid are clearly adept at concealing themselves;
Also the tribes there may have been aware of the meddling with Oblivion
tht was being done in their name, and decided that they wanted nothing
to do with it.
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29.11.2006 13:17 |
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FLESH
Archduke
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I wanted to add this, but I remember my idea being shot down by a certain Krisi
The argument there was that the Aylieds all died out and if some still
lived then they would be close to Cyrodiil borders (Which to me makes
no sense because they have just been cast out of Cyrodiil, and would
probably want to get as far away from it as possible).
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29.11.2006 18:26 |
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IAMTHEEMPEROR
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As quoted in the book "The Wild Elves" There are many Ayleid tribes
scattered around all over Tamriel save Morrowind and Skyrim. Most of
them went to Valenwood, so I'd assume that's where the tribes would be.
You know, I'd like to play as an Ayleid. What color are they, green?
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30.11.2006 22:01 |
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Mormacil
Herma-Mora the Woodland Man
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I think yellow/white/gold like Ayleid, there cousins right?
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30.11.2006 23:04 |
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raggidman
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I seem to remember something about description in the Wild Elves -
suggest you unearth a copy - race you to the lore section!
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02.12.2006 01:27 |
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Azkur_pt
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I think that they have to apear but it have to be very very very very
dificult to find so when you find them a WOW comes out of the player
mouth..........
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03.12.2006 21:43 |
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IAMTHEEMPEROR
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It should be part of some quest, for some reason they need to be found.
But, ayleids despise the rest of Tamriel, as they want to go back to
the old ways of human enslavement, so should they be hostile?
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05.12.2006 00:01 |
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Mormacil
Herma-Mora the Woodland Man
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Hmm yeah maybe most, like all guards you meet are hostile, all NPC's
flee and just the leaders you need to talk to aren't hostile. Well
maybe if you displease them they attack you.
I can imaging a thick rainforest, comming throught the branches
stumbling upon a Ayleid settlement. All NPC's flee, except the guards
in full armor with spears that charge you
btw anybody didn't finish the TG? It has 2 statues of Ayleids in it, so we got there armor and weapons.
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05.12.2006 00:27 |
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raggidman
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Their formal or idea of top quality armor and wpns from the past.
But you have not looked at the other side of the nature of the Ayleids.
What you are repeating is the thingy Dawn propaganda - and everyone
seems agreed that they were NOT ayelieds, but half-breeds and such
posing as Ayleids...
So what are the actual Ayleids like?
There is another book somewhere about a scholar who goes looking for
the wild elves - and his experience is that they have forsaken the
usual trappings of civilisation and are in fact truly wild and
mysterious, rather than urbanised and martial...
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05.12.2006 01:46 |
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KuKulzA
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there were even Ayleids in Black Marsh before the Knahaten Flu got to them... so much for expert concealment 
so yeah, go for it... I'd love to see some Ayleids...
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05.12.2006 03:32 |
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IAMTHEEMPEROR
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You're probably thinking of "The Wild Elves." That book dodn't mention their appearence at all.
My imagining of Ayleids is that they are bright green with green or
brown eyes, and hair colors ranging from brown to a black or whitish
green. They look more wood elven than dark or high elven, but they
don't have the jutting cheekbones like some wood elves have, and their
voices aren't as high. They live tribal, and wear unique leather
clothing that resembles a mixture of native american and natural ayleid
flare. Their weapons are normal wooden-structured weapons with stone or
iron blades. It is stated in "The Wild Elves" that they speak Old
Cyrodiilic, so that probably sounds like their usual speech you here
that sounds like LotR elvish. They are pwerful warriors, mages, and
thieves, so they are a mixed bunch. Some of them appear to be wood
elven-ish due to mixed breeds, so some of them should have greenish-tan
skin too. I'm pretty sure Ayleids are daedra worshippers, so if you
pick a daedra, pick one that isn't out to destroy the world like
Mehrunes Dagon or Sheogorath, and don't pick Meridia because they hate
Meridia for a reason I forgot but it has something to do with the fact
that there are undead Ayleids in their ruins, and Meridia hates the
undead. They still have some relics of the old days and as they keep to
the old ways, they may also keep a human slave in their camp, which
would be one reason you'd need to go there to rescue them. They have
unique magic too. After playing KotN, there are Ayleid Daedra called
Aurorans, those big golden beastie things, although that could be only
specific to Umarill.
They may also have unique welkynd weapons I drew, although I have no
scanner to upload it to my compuer. Basically, it is a welkynd stone
fused with plant energies and makes a weapon around the stone made of
plants, which would fit right in with Valenwood. It is similar to how
wood elves can communicate to plants to do their bidding, but these are
turned into weapons infused with the power of a welkynd stone.
Now, GIVE ME SOME AYLEIDS!!!!!
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05.12.2006 23:30 |
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Mormacil
Herma-Mora the Woodland Man
Registration Date: 15.08.2006
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Hmm I I would go with some green goldish, maybe like elven armor in OB.
I still need to install KotN. For weapons we might want to use this and this, modder's resource.
Also found this Ayleid citadel. I can't read french, so anyone? 
Hmm also made this amulets.
And you already made some extra Ayleid models, uh?
So back to the Ayleids, I think Ayleids should be greenish, goldish. At
least as tall as the Imperials. I'm not sure about native american
clothing., THere armor looks like Elvisharmor in general. On the other
hand, more savage elfs that worship daedra... Hmm you make me think,
it's not that bad at all 
As a daedra prince for them, hard one
. Boethia? no idea won't, nor why in the first place though. I have no idea who is qualifeds.
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06.12.2006 00:40 |
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raggidman
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| quote: |
| Mormacil sez: green goldish colour |
is fine with me = unique and rightly so.
Maybe they are not so impressed by Daedra and Aedra as other races - I
am thinking that these were the 'original inhabitants' that all the
other mer and humans etc found when they first arrived? So it would
make sense if these ones have their own ideas about creation, where
they came from and their relationship to other beings. And therefore
they may consort with Daedra, but not worship? ...
We must find a new way of talking for them too - both written and
spoken ... They may use Old Cyriliic, but I would expect them to use it
in a different way from humans, and I do not think that this is their
own language...
| quote: |
| I
ATE sez: They live tribal, and wear unique leather clothing that
resembles a mixture of native american and natural ayleid flare. |
works for me too.
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06.12.2006 01:12 |
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IAMTHEEMPEROR
Duke
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The old Ayleids that lived in the ruins are gone, the rest of the
ayleids are tribal. Even back in the old days, most Ayleids lived in
tribes, and only the wealthy were able to live in the ruins. Likewise,
the rich Ayleids were the ones who wore the armor, or even their guards
could have, but the tribal ayleids didn't have much money and probably
wouldn't make armor like that. Most of them lived in the wild, which is
where they got the name "Wild Elves" They share culture with the richer
Ayleid Lords, but they are not nearly as lavish.
Those weapons are great, but they seem too wealthy to use in a tribal setting.
It would also be cheap to use the default elvish armor, I think we
should get something new. Someone made a mod for Elvish Leather Armor I
have. I can't find any site for it though, and I don't remember where I
got it. It's Kalikuts rare trade goods, it has elvish leather armor in
it.
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06.12.2006 04:03 |
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KuKulzA
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maybe only the chiefs which later grew to be kings had the fine armors
at first and the other had skins with bronze plates at best?
as for a Daedric Prince... perhaps Mephala or Hermaeus Mora?
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06.12.2006 04:57 |
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Mormacil
Herma-Mora the Woodland Man
Registration Date: 15.08.2006
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god of the Ayleids: Molag Bal. Since he;s the prince of Enslavement 
| quote: |
Molag
Bal, whose sphere is the domination and enslavement of mortals; whose
desire is the harvest the souls of mortals and to bring mortals souls
within his sway by spreading seeds of strife and discord in the mortal
realms.
Molag Bal (God of Schemes, King of Rape): Daedric power of much
importance in Morrowind. There, he is always the archenemy of Boethiah,
the Prince of Plots. He is the main source of the obstacles to the
Dunmer (and preceding Chimer) people. In the legends, Molag Bal always
tries to upset the bloodlines of Houses or otherwise ruin Dunmeri
'purity'. A race of supermonsters, said to live in Molag Amur, are the
result of his seduction of Vivec during the previous era.
(Varieties of Faith in the Empire) |
I think he fits the Ayleids.
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06.12.2006 12:52 |
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Mormacil
Herma-Mora the Woodland Man
Registration Date: 15.08.2006
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Nice feedback
Anyway more ideas:
If we make the Ayleids tribal we should make a unique tribestructure.
1. They life in one place, a village.
2. They proberbly enslave men.
3. They worship Daedra, so need temples of some sort, maybe altars. Hmm underground temples, like the Cyrodill ruins?
4. They got great knowledge of stonecrafting and metallurgy, well and of course magic.
5. They summon lesser Daedra frequently I think, so maybe some of those blue crystals?
I think they use some sort of aristocratic structure to define their
rulers. Maybe a chieftain si choosen for life from 5 important
families? Then like 4-5 tribes, each own marks, symbols and cuirass for
the guards?
For weaponry: magic
short bows
halbeard (I just haved this feeling they use them)
swords
Maybe one tribe is taken by the Cyrodill Ayleids(from the ruins) and
they enforced some of there ways. So more heavy armed troops(TG quest
armor) A king and maybe 3 watchtowers, small palace/villa. This is
deeply hidden in the woods, very deep. You will find it because of a
quest.
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07.12.2006 00:21 |
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FLESH
Archduke
Registration Date: 23.06.2006
Posts: 2,824
Location: Ireland
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The problem with this is we are focusing on Aylied tribes, while we
haven't even developed Bosmer ones yet. Although those are some great
ideas Mormacil, I have a nice picture in my head from them.
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07.12.2006 17:10 |
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Mormacil
Herma-Mora the Woodland Man
Registration Date: 15.08.2006
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Yeah maybe I should post something similair about the Bosmer tribes, perhaps tomorrow
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07.12.2006 18:18 |
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IAMTHEEMPEROR
Duke
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Ok, now I just read that the Ayleids leaned towords being Daedra
worshippers, however they are pretty much godless. This is confusing to
me because they have a unique daedra summon and their king Umaril keeps
his spirit in Oblivion. What would be cool is if they had their own
daedric lord and Plane of Oblivion.
Even so, in KotN, to beat Umaril once and for all, you need to go to
the plane of oblivion by casting a unique spell to go there, sort of
like a counter summon. You get there, but it is just you and him
floating high above the Imperial City. I beleive Mankar Camoran has
something to do with Ayleids, and his theory is that Nirn is just
another Plane of Oblivion turned good that Mehrunes Dagon used to rule
over. The Ayleid's Daedric Prince could be Umaril himself (If the
Emperor Tiber Septim could become a god/Aedra, it seems possible for
the King of the Ayleids to ascend to Daedric Prince status) and the
Plane of Oblivion they like is some realm in the skies of Tamriel.
(which could explain why they made White-Gold Tower so high)
The Ayleids could have their own plane of Oblivion, as we now know through dark Daedric magic you can make one.
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07.12.2006 22:11 |
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Mormacil
Herma-Mora the Woodland Man
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Alright I read your post later, still busy with KotN
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07.12.2006 23:10 |
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IAMTHEEMPEROR
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Oops, sorry, didn't spoil anything for you, did I? It's just KotN
introduced a load of new Ayleid lore and the new information is bound
to spoil something...
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08.12.2006 03:36 |
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Mormacil
Herma-Mora the Woodland Man
Registration Date: 15.08.2006
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I understand and well I stopped reading on time
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08.12.2006 09:31 |
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raggidman
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| quote: |
Mormacil:
Hmm yeah chieftains with the Ayleid armor works for me. Armor for the
rest, I got this idea, a leather vest, with hundreds of small rings
stiched to it. |
The leather, bamboo and bark vest (minus rings looks fine) let us
assume that there is one very tough bark in the forest ... woof
As IATE was saying, we have rustic and town Aylieds originally each with apropriate accoutrements...
So the surviving rustics = wild elves might have a few family heirlooms, but their usual stuff would be 'rustic.'
| quote: |
Mormacil
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
god of the Ayleids: ...snip...
I think he fits the Ayleids. |
Sorry, I stand by my earier comment, and revelations re Kotr... whatever that is seem to support my position:
| quote: |
| raggidman:
Maybe they are not so impressed by Daedra and Aedra as other races - I
am thinking that these were the 'original inhabitants' that all the
other mer and humans etc found when they first arrived? So it would
make sense if these ones have their own ideas about creation, where
they came from and their relationship to other beings. And therefore
they may consort with Daedra, but not worship? ... |
They might travel there, interact with Daedra, but basically they
likely see themselves as superior to Daedra = the Aylieds say: we all
came from the same time/places, and these daedra are just another
species of us... we followed the best path!
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08.12.2006 13:38 |
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Mormacil
Herma-Mora the Woodland Man
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One thing we know is that the Ayleids are close relatives to the High
Elves. But in TIL you find that the daedra are not the same as men and
mer. They're not mortal, life in other realms.
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08.12.2006 19:22 |
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IAMTHEEMPEROR
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Alright, how should we start planning these Ayleids? Before we discuss
anything else let's just compile a list of what we'd accept for the
appearence of Ayleids. What color are they? Do they have any
distinguishable features in their appearance than other elves? Do they
have any unique tribal appearances (hair, piercings, tatoos, e.t.c...)?
How do they treat outsiders? Let's decide this.
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09.12.2006 00:04 |
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raggidman
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Think we are agreed that they are a greenie shade of gold...
we have Mormacils Concept sketches for armor + my suggestion that the overbits be a very tough/flexible bark...
Suggest that for once no tatts etc - tats are urban and these are wild...
They are not like the 1/2 Ayelids = why did they leave the Ayelid
Cities, which were conquered later? Because they did not agree with the
urban slave regime or conquest - these are the true back to nature
elves... unlike Bosmer...
There were no pure Ayelied in the thingy Dawn because they do not want
to associate with others - and so the thingy Dawn are the remnants of
the Urban Ayelied...
Mormacil is right about their attachment to nature and magic - but that
has to be unique and very green - they do not bow to the greenpact or
any god...
They do not bow to Daedra either, or sumon them (we have loads of summoning races) but they do not fight them either...
They avoid other races by preference as stated, though they may feel drawn to a specific individual...
They are nomadic and use the resources of the forest wisely...
Their philosophy is gentle in that they do not intend harm to sophonts
or unnecessary harm to animals, but they are omniverous. Their thoughts
run deep...
Their magic is based on communion with spirits and other forms of life
normally rather than compulsion, though they can compel they prefer to
disappear.
Their magic also includes illusion and esp concealment not just of themselves, but also of their habitations!
And the magic they choose to do is very strong.
They have a fund of Ancient lore on both the surface and the deeper
nature of things which they do not casually share, though it is obvious
that they know much...
Their perceptions are especially keen, and that makes them powerful hunters and trackers - way above the Bosmer norm...
more, more, more...
As I said previously there is another book about the wild elves - sadly
the Imperial Library seems to have mislaid that and only has the TES4
version for some reason...
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09.12.2006 00:40 |
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Mormacil
Herma-Mora the Woodland Man
Registration Date: 15.08.2006
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OK I started Knights of the Nine
I'm not 100% sure if the Ayleids are really that much into not harming stuff.
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09.12.2006 02:08 |
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raggidman
Prince
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Hey, nothing wrong with Vanilla - just be aware that there are or can
be other flavours, and that there are some devs who support one
faction, and other devs ...
The whole point about the 9 is that to the Ayelids the 9 are outsiders...
So what do you think the attitude of the 9 (and their supporters) to the Ayelids would be?
Also you seem to be forgetting effect of actions of the Mythic dawn,
who acted in the name of the Ayeleids yet were not really Ayeleids
themselves, on peoples' opinions.
If every faction on Nirn is like every other, then where is the variety?
Think of the Mythic Dawn as usurpers of the Ayelied name, and the Real
Ayelieds as peaceful and and shy, but dangerous if cornered.
Read 'Mara's View' in ST Lit Dev - it aint finished, but note that there are difrferent opinions on one subject.
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by raggidman: 09.12.2006 11:47.
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09.12.2006 11:46 |
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Mormacil
Herma-Mora the Woodland Man
Registration Date: 15.08.2006
Posts: 2,252
Location: Netherlands
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The player has all this knowledge about Ayleids beeing evil. I don't
think we can just trow that over board. I still think they need to have
some sort of cruel custom
Where is the rest anyway? No opinions?
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09.12.2006 12:01 |
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Mormacil
Herma-Mora the Woodland Man
Registration Date: 15.08.2006
Posts: 2,252
Location: Netherlands
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In a book, I think it was "The Amulet of Kings", says the Ayleids
summoned armies of Daedra to conquer men. So they definently summon
them
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09.12.2006 14:51 |
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raggidman
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The cruelty with the Wild Elves (not to be confused with the NEW war
mongering urban variety that appeared in the Oblivion Lore) is that of
nature ... they tend to seduce and bemuse those who seek them out, and
like nature they can be merciless.
There is an old book about them that you will no longer find in the
Imperial Library, but that you will have to find by playing Morrowind
or Daggerfall about a scholar who seeks them out, falls in love with
them, and finally disappears never to be seen again.
Try that - the romantic cruelty rather than the crudely brutal, of which there is plenty in Ob and Morrowind. 
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10.12.2006 00:43 |
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Mormacil
Herma-Mora the Woodland Man
Registration Date: 15.08.2006
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I love that kind of cruelty
Torture doesn't have to be physical either... For example msot people
here will know the medieval torture where they attach your head to a
wall, with irons, and then let water drop on it, eventually making you
feel like your head is beeing flatten by a hammer. Much more unknow is
and old south american torture where a prisoner's head was also
attached to a wall, but no water. The only thing he could do was
looking at a blanc white wall, just white, nothing else. At some point
from a wekk to weeks he went crazy, he lost it since all he could see
was white, no other colors, nothing else. His brain lost it
What this has to do with Ayleids? not much but I like to share my wisdom
Well I sadly ain't got the time to play MW. Christmas holiday is
comming close but I got enought things to do, schoolwork, christmas, a
LAN party, you get the picture.
But I really like some other modders opinion on this topic.
Mormacil
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10.12.2006 00:55 |
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raggidman
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????? how is water not physical? How is dehydration not physical?
Was thinking that these Ayeleids are fundamentally beguiling creatures
... that they do not deliberately 'control' others in this way, but
that the effect is a natural part of their makeup.
Thus 'mortal men and women' succumb to a deep fascination that bemuses
and baffles the mind and senses ... they then neglect their own needs
and well-being ... eventually this may lead to starvation and such ...
This might be the basis for slavery in Morrowind = that the mer first
saw men in 'thrall' to Ayeleids and assumed that this was the basic
nature of men and the 'beast races.' Thus it is only in modern times
with the growth of the Empire that it is seen that the true
relationship is what it is.
Not that modern Imperials and mer have anything to do with true Ayelieds.
This reasoning might provide the basis for the split in Ayelied culture
between Urban Conquerors and Wild Naturist Separatists:
- the Wild Elves wanted nothing to do with the enslavement of members of other races and so survived;
- the Urban Ayelieds saw supremacy as their natural right and found
themselves fighting with the real powers behind humanity as well as
against the more bellicose and therefore less susceptible humans.
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10.12.2006 12:42 |
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IAMTHEEMPEROR
Duke
Registration Date: 04.07.2006
Posts: 1,957
Location: New England
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If you ask me, Ayleids are a diverse group of people. They shouldn't
all be decided under one general category. They can be compared to the
everyday races. Like imperials for instance, some can be conjurers,
some cam be mages, some can be necromancers, some can be valiant
knights, and some can be the lowest beggar on the face of the Earth.
The Ayleids can be divided. A way to take this would be for every tribe
of Ayleids to have a different way of things, like some can be wizards,
some warriors e.t.c. similar to the houses of Morrowind. They can also
be a mixed group as well just tending to the professions their
ancestors followed and passed to their decendants.
If Ayleids can conceal the places they live, then they should be pretty
hard to come by. How would we do it though? Oblivion doesn't have any
means of a cloaking device as far as I know, but you could probably use
those shader things I never mess with to make things transparent at a
distance. Or, their area of living could blend in with the natural
flora and that would give the image of concealment. Just as something
the player would normally overlook if they never went out of their way
to find it.
We need to dig up lots of Ayleid lore. If we choose them to not be
hostile, then we need to at least make them hate Humans and Betmer, and
maybe Dunmer because they're always pretty dislikeable.
I think we can clearly go on with they merely only use the Daedra. Just
because a Mages Guild mage can summon Daedra doesn't make them a Daedra
worshipper, likewise with undead and Necromancers. The Dwemer, for
instance, were a godless people (I don't know about lorkhan), but
acknowledged the existance of Daedra and the Plains of Oblivion.
The ayleids should be otherwise either moderately friendly or
indifferent to their elven kin, but because siding with humans they may
not be totally friendly. The way with elves is that they tend to like
and respect their kin.
They should be in tune with nature, because that's just always how they
seemed. When I started playing Oblivion, I just looked at their
architecture and their armor and statues, and I just thought "these
have to be nature lovers here" On their doors, they depict trees. They
have runes that flow like branches on the trees, and an otherwise
similar appearance to the tree-hugging elves of LotR.
A reason to hate humans would be in fear of the conquest they knew was
bound to happen, and the destruction of their capital city only to be
replaced by a city to gods they don't call their own, and their most
precious tower to be the home of the one who leads them. The humans
invaded a powerful ayleid city in what is now Bravil and totally
leveled it. (there is also lore there suggesting their powerful mages
in that book, the title escapes me) To keep down what they kew were a
powerful people, they kept them as slaves. These probably lead up to
the hatred of Ayleids known today.
I'm pretty sure the Ayleids grew tired of trying to deal with their problems which is why they all live in seclusion now.
Some of these, if not all, are just theories of information gained on a reading spree on TIL. I'm not saying all of it is true.
Now, the playing part.
1. For what reason would you be sent to find these Ayleids?
2. What will they do when you find them?
3. Besides their color, how do they look?
4. What is their culture as it stands now like?
5. What is their take on the Mythic dawn and the comeback of sorcerer-king Umarill?
6. Will they speak a different language entirely so you have need of a translator, or do they speak bad cyrodiilic?
__________________
What is was not to that which never was.
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11.12.2006 04:51 |
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Mormacil
Herma-Mora the Woodland Man
Registration Date: 15.08.2006
Posts: 2,252
Location: Netherlands
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The Ayleids of the capital and the ones living in VW are not very
close. I don't think they care much for the destruction of the capital.
As for their looks, I think of them as Altmer in looks, this matches
the 2 statues under the Imperial Palace and the fact that they're so
close to Altmer.
Again different tribes, similair to the MW houses? WE already got that
for our Bosmer. Maybe some tribes, but none tending towards one
specialty. Just some tribes with different leaders, and as I said
before, one of them conquered by our urbanised Ayleids.
As far about cloaking I think OB has a "hide" option on objects.
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11.12.2006 08:22 |
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