Quote:Originally posted by Axen
Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzA
Quote:Originally posted by Axen
Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzA
Quote:Originally posted by Axen
Because Vehk is a slave/servant to Vivec. Everything that Vehk does must have some kind of a benefit to Vivec.
why? I always thought he was divided... part Vehk, part Vivec
He is, but Vivec is the stronger half.
but isn't Vivec gradually receding? I mean he is no longer immortal, and he is Vehk and a memory of god-hood... he isn't a god anymore
He is still stronger, as Vehk has always been really weak.
really? since when? he couldn't have been weak if he became one of Nerevar's generals... he had merit... but when he becme a god, things changed...
how has Vehk always been weak?
and why are you so against him doing somethings good, even if it is really a cover-up?
I don't think you have a good arguement if you aren't considering possibilities...
and how is Vivec-side stronger? where does it say that? he is divided, but where does it say unevenly? don't you think many of his doings are also Vehk? honest passionate work? or are you convinced he is and forever will be one way, cause let me tell you, that's not what we are looking for...
we are looking for to portray Vivec as a mortal, and someone who is powerful, and has the memory of god-hood... has the chance to do good and also do bad and achieve CHIM...
not some dirty guy who is going to be bad and achieve CHIM
Quote:and why are you so against him doing somethings good, even if it is really a cover-up?
Because I'm also against sucking up.
Quote:not some dirty guy who is going to be bad and achieve CHIM
That is Vivec. The murderer of the last and last. Born of powers which should have forever been unalike. All his gifts "to others" are, as they have always been, gifts unto himself.
Quote:Originally posted by Axen
Quote:and why are you so against him doing somethings good, even if it is really a cover-up?
Because I'm also against sucking up.
and what does sucking up have to do with Vehk/Vivec and 6th House?
this isn't about you or what you think of Vivec, it is about all of our ideas
I respect yours and I hope you respect mine, and till now I have respected your points of view
but if it is just that you don't like sucking up... well i dunno what to say to you
I mean I don't suck up nor do I like to... and I don't see what it has to do with Vivec
EDIT: yeah, so doesn't that futher my point? that all he has done for others is also for himself
him helping his Temple and his people and reconciling, doesn't that help him?
Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzA
Quote:Originally posted by Axen
Quote:and why are you so against him doing somethings good, even if it is really a cover-up?
Because I'm also against sucking up.
and what does sucking up have to do with Vehk/Vivec and 6th House?
Doing things to cover up your true intentions is in the same degree as sucking up.
umm...
you said Vivec is a lying and decietful bastard... but now you are saying you disagree because that is like sucking up
but that is exactly what you wanted of Vivec... he does things to cover up his intentions, that's like lying...
now I must ask you a very important question...
what is your point?
Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzA
umm...
you said Vivec is a lying and decietful bastard... but now you are saying you disagree because that is like sucking up
but that is exactly what you wanted of Vivec... he does things to cover up his intentions, that's like lying...
now I must ask you a very important question...
what is your point?
... I said that wrong.
In any case, this is useless. A thread on the TES lore forums, on the other hand, might not be so fruitless.
Quote:Originally posted by Axen
Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzA
umm...
you said Vivec is a lying and decietful bastard... but now you are saying you disagree because that is like sucking up
but that is exactly what you wanted of Vivec... he does things to cover up his intentions, that's like lying...
now I must ask you a very important question...
what is your point?
... I said that wrong.
In any case, this is useless. A thread on the TES lore forums, on the other hand, might not be so fruitless.
okay, I'll post one, good suggestion
http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index...pic=480698
let's hope it doesn't just get ignored like some topics :yes:
There is one thing about really good liars, the best believe and live their lies sincerely...
Vivec is a contradiction, all things to all men (and women.) He is surely a rogue, but then so are many ES players - does that mean they are disgusting or liars or whatever?
In ES, as in real life, it is possible to be a rogue and much loved. If lovable enough almost anything is gladly forgiven. Also there is a kind of wisdom that people acquire in coming to terms with their own faults and in so doing such people become more caring of others than the totally intolerant... Look at the end of Almalexia?
Quote:Originally posted by raggidman
Vivec is a contradiction, all things to all men (and women.) He is surely a rogue, but then so are many ES players - does that mean they are disgusting or liars or whatever?
If they ARE liars. Like Vivec is. (And lies are obviously a big part of him.) And they're disgusting if they really are. Like Vivec, who has a name for his... uhh, spear, and...
see that's the funny thing....
Axen likes to see only one side of him
he sees the liar side...t he one at the moment when he killed Vivec (or he and Tribunal) and became a god... the murderer, the thief, and the liar (after making proclamation after the rise of Tribunal)....
however he is disregarding the fact that this guy is a warrior-poet and also a former god... and man-god who has a responsible guardian of his people in what ways he could be...
what Vivec said in the Sermons is not necessarily true... he was probably raped by Molag Bal, he probably killed Dreugh, and he probably did quest and kill evil and mythic mosnters... but use his muatra to kill people? no, more likely it was metaphorical and he probably raped his enemies or something... some people/cultures do that to show masculinity and victory...
that's what I don't understand about you Axen... you will never admit to what you are focusing on... or if you do, you don't show it.... don't treat this as an insult, treat it as advice... consider other people...
Axen all I want is you to consider other people's view and other conditions and facts
Vivec himself said he does not want to be the mortal, nor a liar or murderer, he wants to reform the Temple and honor his word. I think we should go with that, but not forget to portray some of his other sides and attitudes