Silgrad Tower from the Ashes

Quote:Originally posted by Intestinal Chaos

Quote:Originally posted by Axen

Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzA
and I also think Vivec wants to reform the Temple, wants to atone for his wrongs

Vehk would like to do that. Vivec won't let that happen, as it's an act of submission.

All this Vivec-Vehk business is a big disconcerting. It's going to leave players feeling like the god-like beings make the decisions here, not the people, player, and factions. I think the focus on this game should be on the people's efforts to acclimate to their new changed world, one that has stayed the same for generations, and also the many factions that are vying for power and a place in this new order.

I believe my idea does a better job of handing the decision-making over to the player (when it comes to the Great House War part, at least). After Vivec shows his true colors and leaves the mortal realm, the legitimate rule in Morrowind goes to hell and the power void left behind is up for grabs.

Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzA

Quote:Originally posted by Axen

Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzA

Quote:Originally posted by Axen

Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzA
and I also think Vivec wants to reform the Temple, wants to atone for his wrongs

Vehk would like to do that. Vivec won't let that happen, as it's an act of submission.

and you yourself said that he is divided...
if he is divided then he can go either way...
and which ever way he goes, the Temple does
and the way the Temple goes, the Dagoths respond

I say Vehk shows up for once in a thousand years, you would like Vivec to stick around even though you say he is divided... and he is...

Both sides do what they will, so long as they don't hinder each other (if they did, Vivec would be a much weaker figure of power than he is now). Vehk submitting hinders Vivec.

submitting is a one-sided thing
reconciling is a mutual thing
I think you got my idea wrong... I want him to reconcile with some of his foes, atone for his sins...
and who is he atoning to? no one, he is submitting to no one at all, simply doing this for himself, for his own personal benefit of knowing he is setting things right

Again this makes the player feel extremely unstable and powerless, in a world where Vivec-Vehk is calling the shots and making the changes. And even if the player does make changes, it'll be on Vivec's terms (fighting the sixth house as vivec wants, joining with the house as vivec doesn't want). The players will either feel like they are always under Vivec's thumb or that they are just rebelling against him. This theme of this should be the power of the people and the power of the individual (the player).

but I think if Vivec does all this goodness and strengthens his Temple and reconciles with those he has wronged then it is more likely he would be willing to go and be tried at Hogithum Hall...
however if he is all about power and such then why would be bend down to be tried?
(in the eys of common people)

and Intestinal Chaos, you bring up a good point I don't think anyone considered yet... or spoke of in the way you did

perhaps we should have an incident where Vivec needs the player and so they make a mutual agreement and the player can influence Vivec and his policies? and then maybe in the end of it all Vivec leaves to be tried

I mean in the 6th House the player is perhaps guided by Dagoth Velos until he reaches the point where they are equals, and then the player can ascend to be the leader, probably by killing Velos...



but also consider...

Temple and Dagoth reconciling is better for a post-war atmosphere and witha third party threat
Vivec being as described by Axen is better for a pre-War Vvardenfell

Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzA
but I think if Vivec does all this goodness and strengthens his Temple and reconciles with those he has wronged then it is more likely he would be willing to go and be tried at Hogithum Hall...
however if he is all about power and such then why would be bend down to be tried?
(in the eys of common people)

The whole reason Vivec agreed to be tried was to manipulate the Trial to where he can get his revenge on Azura.

Quote:Originally posted by Axen

Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzA
but I think if Vivec does all this goodness and strengthens his Temple and reconciles with those he has wronged then it is more likely he would be willing to go and be tried at Hogithum Hall...
however if he is all about power and such then why would be bend down to be tried?
(in the eys of common people)

The whole reason Vivec agreed to be tried was to manipulate the Trial to where he can get his revenge on Azura.

yes yes, but in the eyes of the common people...
he is not just an individual, he is a leader...
he is only weakening his temple by being unexpected and brash....
if he is beinghumble and a good leader, people would not mind so much that he is being humble and tried... but if he does this after being more authoritative and manipulative, people would be suspicious... especially with the Dunmer being now spiritually insecure

While I respect your ideas, the Sixth House is nothing but a bunch of psychopaths and power hungry evil men. Vivec could never dismiss that, no person could. And the sixth house are insane, though they can see what benifits momentarily cooperation with Vivec could bring, they wouldn't.

Infact, I believe the Dagoths would like a house war to happen. It would weaken every enemy on Vvardenfell and if they spent enough time cultivating power and influence they could strike when the people of Vvardenfell are at their weakest and establish themselves as a major (perhaps even dominant) power.

Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzA

Quote:Originally posted by Axen

Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzA
but I think if Vivec does all this goodness and strengthens his Temple and reconciles with those he has wronged then it is more likely he would be willing to go and be tried at Hogithum Hall...
however if he is all about power and such then why would be bend down to be tried?
(in the eys of common people)

The whole reason Vivec agreed to be tried was to manipulate the Trial to where he can get his revenge on Azura.

yes yes, but in the eyes of the common people...
he is not just an individual, he is a leader...
he is only weakening his temple by being unexpected and brash....
if he is beinghumble and a good leader, people would not mind so much that he is being humble and tried... but if he does this after being more authoritative and manipulative, people would be suspicious... especially with the Dunmer being now spiritually insecure

The people don't realize he's being authoritive, much less manipulative.

Quote:Originally posted by Axen

Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzA

Quote:Originally posted by Axen

Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzA
but I think if Vivec does all this goodness and strengthens his Temple and reconciles with those he has wronged then it is more likely he would be willing to go and be tried at Hogithum Hall...
however if he is all about power and such then why would be bend down to be tried?
(in the eys of common people)

The whole reason Vivec agreed to be tried was to manipulate the Trial to where he can get his revenge on Azura.

yes yes, but in the eyes of the common people...
he is not just an individual, he is a leader...
he is only weakening his temple by being unexpected and brash....
if he is beinghumble and a good leader, people would not mind so much that he is being humble and tried... but if he does this after being more authoritative and manipulative, people would be suspicious... especially with the Dunmer being now spiritually insecure

The people don't realize he's being authoritive, much less manipulative.

I dunno... like if I was a Dunmer farmer and I saw a few guys being draged away by Inquisitors, and see Temple edicts being posted and news of Vivec doing this and that... I might suspect something is wrong...
but if I see Vivec in person helping people, mobilizing the Temple to help in a post-war time, and then surprisingly but not unwelcomely reconciling with House Dagoth (assuring the common people no more Dagoth-raids) I would like it much more... and I would not suspect Vivec if he says he is going to humbly stand trial in the Imperial City for what he had done in the past..

I think the problem is we don't think alike... but I think that is the beauty, cause then there is debate and we can share our thoughts :yes:

Vivec is discreet and secretive, of course. He's not an idiot.

Quote:Originally posted by Axen
Vivec is discreet and secretive, of course. Of course he's not going to make it obvious that he's a lying, manipulative bastard.

that's the thing, he is not always a lying decietful bastard... he is sometimes
you have lied in your life haven't you? does that make you always a liar? even if you are good at lying...
Vivec is good at lying... but he is not necessarily always a liar...