Quote:Originally posted by Axen
Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzA
I think we should show both sides... in like a sort of Vivec epic... he does this... he does that... etc. etc.... and eventually CHIM
Not in a submission way, though... that just wouldn't be continuous with the Trial of Vivec part. Some things, most things, or everything he does prior to the Trial should have some sort of "bad" side to them, but very subtle and obscure (you won't realize it's not wholly good unless you really think about it). That way, the events at the Trial would be like "what the hell?", but somehow make sense after reflecting on everything that went on before; whereas, if Vivec was submitting, the Trial's occurences would be coming way out of left field.
"coming way out of left field"
but that would be sooo in character of Vivec wouldn't it?
wasn't the trial all a way for him to revenge on Azura?
but listen to me... Vivec is a poet-warrior/guardian/trickster... he has a few aspects to him....
him atoning for his sins is his Vehk.... maybe he is building up recognition and love and memory... and luring Azura's attention... he wants his revenge and he is tired of the mortal world... and so after taking care of business and saying sorry to those he needs to and spiting those he doesn't love but helping those he does... he goes to Hogithum hall...
people now trust him, and trust him not to pull any tricks.... since he has built an honorable reputation reforming the Temple and helping Vvardenfell / Morrowind in a post-war time. And then at the climax he shuts Azura in her realm and achieves CHIM, all of his mortal attachments are fulfilled and disconnected, he is fulfilled and enlightened and can now achieve CHIM, he has no more chain to the mortal plane...
how about it?
Not in that way.
Vehk is too weak to go out and atone for his sins... if he wasn't, he'd have done it by now. But he's always been weak. And so he was stolen by Vivec.
"I give my thanks to all assembled, my dumb, deaf dreamers! You've proven a convicing ruse for so long now! I would ask that you bear me no ill will for my use of you..."
"... I am Vivec, born of powers which should have forever been unalike, Vehk and Vehk, murderer of the last and last, anon ALMSIVI, whose name is Alive, and so really do not care!"
"This was my last gift to all of you, which as they all have ever been, was a gift unto MYSELF!"
personally I think you underestimate him
plus, it could've been Vivec all along, a plot...
or are all my ideas falling on deaf ears?
You'll probably get a bunch of lore fanatics on your ass if you make Vivec do goody-goody deeds that don't benefit himself... because that's not like Vivec.
Quote:Originally posted by Axen
You'll probably get a bunch of lore fanatics on your ass if you make Vivec do goody-goody deeds that don't benefit himself... because that's not like Vivec.
you simply ignore it when I point out how it does help him...
your only looking at the immediate effects...
if you refuse to consider everything then I dunno what to say to you
understand?
Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzA
Quote:Originally posted by Axen
You'll probably get a bunch of lore fanatics on your ass if you make Vivec do goody-goody deeds that don't benefit himself... because that's not like Vivec.
you simply ignore it when I point out how it does help him...
your only looking at the immediate effects...
if you refuse to consider everything then I dunno what to say to you
understand?
Because they don't benefit him. Trading away his powerful image (or part of it) to be loved. Does nothing in the end, and Vivec won't let Vehk do that. The people already love Vivec, anyway. Things that satisfy both Vehk's want of love
and Vivec's greed, on the other hand...
Remember whose role Vivec usurped from the Chimer religion. Mephala's.
Quote:Originally posted by Axen
Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzA
Quote:Originally posted by Axen
You'll probably get a bunch of lore fanatics on your ass if you make Vivec do goody-goody deeds that don't benefit himself... because that's not like Vivec.
you simply ignore it when I point out how it does help him...
your only looking at the immediate effects...
if you refuse to consider everything then I dunno what to say to you
understand?
Because they don't benefit him. Trading away his powerful image (or part of it) to be loved. Does nothing in the end, and Vivec won't let Vehk do that. The people already love Vivec, anyway. Things that satisfy both Vehk's want of love and Vivec's greed, on the other hand...
Remember whose role Vivec usurped from the Chimer religion. Mephala's.
I think he wants CHIM, and I think by being nice and being a better person will also get him closer to his revenge and also CHIM...
how does being good not benefit? tell me... cause I am lost as to why it wouldn't
Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzA
Quote:Originally posted by Axen
Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzA
Quote:Originally posted by Axen
You'll probably get a bunch of lore fanatics on your ass if you make Vivec do goody-goody deeds that don't benefit himself... because that's not like Vivec.
you simply ignore it when I point out how it does help him...
your only looking at the immediate effects...
if you refuse to consider everything then I dunno what to say to you
understand?
Because they don't benefit him. Trading away his powerful image (or part of it) to be loved. Does nothing in the end, and Vivec won't let Vehk do that. The people already love Vivec, anyway. Things that satisfy both Vehk's want of love and Vivec's greed, on the other hand...
Remember whose role Vivec usurped from the Chimer religion. Mephala's.
I think he wants CHIM, and I think by being nice and being a better person will also get him closer to his revenge and also CHIM...
how does being good not benefit? tell me... cause I am lost as to why it wouldn't
Being good does not benefit
Vivec.
And, revenge isn't pretty. Being good is not the path Vivec would choose to CHIM.
"Reach heaven by violence." - The 36 Lessons of Vivec.
Quote:Originally posted by Axen
Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzA
Quote:Originally posted by Axen
Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzA
Quote:Originally posted by Axen
You'll probably get a bunch of lore fanatics on your ass if you make Vivec do goody-goody deeds that don't benefit himself... because that's not like Vivec.
you simply ignore it when I point out how it does help him...
your only looking at the immediate effects...
if you refuse to consider everything then I dunno what to say to you
understand?
Because they don't benefit him. Trading away his powerful image (or part of it) to be loved. Does nothing in the end, and Vivec won't let Vehk do that. The people already love Vivec, anyway. Things that satisfy both Vehk's want of love and Vivec's greed, on the other hand...
Remember whose role Vivec usurped from the Chimer religion. Mephala's.
I think he wants CHIM, and I think by being nice and being a better person will also get him closer to his revenge and also CHIM...
how does being good not benefit? tell me... cause I am lost as to why it wouldn't
Being good does not benefit Vivec.
And, revenge isn't pretty. Being good is not the path Vivec would choose to CHIM.
"Reach heaven by violence." - The 36 Lessons of Vivec.
but I wanted him to be good to his friends!
isn't the Temple his friend?
plus, what is reconciling with House Dagoth? it is saying "I was wrong" and then "let's beat up those bastards together!"
of course we need to decide who the bad-guys are...
reach heaven by violence does not mean you can't make friends...
Quote:but I wanted him to be good to his friends!
isn't the Temple his friend?
plus, what is reconciling with House Dagoth? it is saying "I was wrong" and then "let's beat up those bastards together!"
of course we need to decide who the bad-guys are...
reach heaven by violence does not mean you can't make friends...
The Temple is Vivec's manipulatee, his tool. Vivec does not need the help of others. He does not want friends, only powerful admirers for him to manipulate. One's CHIM is for himself, not others.
And remember that Vehk/Vivec
never trusted House Dagoth, apparently. Same with the rest of the Tribunal. House Dagoth threatened his godhood and power. He had to give the Nerevarine Wraithguard, he had no choice. Otherwise, Dagoth Ur might have learned how to make his own Wraithguard from Kagrenac's works, and totally destroy the Tribunal's power. Vivec also wanted revenge.