I'm sorry about the delay in replying. RL has not been working in my favour recently.
Thank you both sandor and SACarrow for answering questions.
Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou
So! To respond to your response, and add some more stuff...
Meeting the supplier: Hmm... I haven't actually given much thought as to the supplier as a person... So far they're a faceless 'Them' to be complained about. Before I try and fit them into the picture, I'm going to need to tour around the landscape a bit more. Despite working on this mod daily for a month or so now, and being a shadowy fan of Silgrad Tower since Morrowind, I've yet to actually take a look around in game :O
My idea behind this supplier was something sorta shady. Not illegal perse, but the supplier supplied Ebbedin with leftovers from his other deals. Ebbedin's just a way to unload his excess that's not selling at all in their own 'regular' business. As such, I picture a pawn broker with an actual store front, or a successful wandering merchant who's last stop is Ebbedin. I'll ponder this some more, but it might be something to expand into another claim later (after a mold cave or two, as I'm really itching to try my hand there...).
Cool. I’d like to hear the rest of your ideas when you’re ready. :yes:
Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou
As far as Okan-Shei's backstory, and adding it to other Ebbedin residents... I've not tried my hand at general dialogue editing before ._. All dialogue I've done has been added in the Topic tab of the Quest window/section/editor portion thingy. Are there any particular quests I'd add such backstory to, or should I try and fiddle with the Dialogue window/section/editor portion thingy? Maybe just keep it in Okan-Shei's dialogue quest and set the condition to being in Ebbedin and not being Okan-shei, for example?
I haven’t thought too much about how general Ebbedin dialogue is going to be handled. Right now, I
think we’re still working out the technical details. What I would suggest (for now) is making a topic with the title “Okan-Shei” and making an entry so that each Ebbedin character is able to talk about it (should be achievable using GetInCellParam). Do you have any particular text in mind?
Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou
Hmm... I hadn't considered the difficulty of aquiring alchemical apparatuses, now that you mention the payoff for Okan-Shei's reward... I always ended up making use of Frostcrag... Your method of how to calculate out the reward based on the type of aparatus is exactly what I had in mind to do (and is the same method I use for the scrap metal quest). There is a reward for giving Okan-Shei apparatuses, beyond him offering the potions, for sure. He'll give a small portion of gold (very small, he is trying to save, after all), and some potions left over from his ingredient quest (a prerequisite for the apparatus quest).
As far as enchanted stuff goes, I dunno... Okan-Shei was broke well before he got stuck in Ebbedin... You'd think he'd have sold off any such thing well before ending up in his current state, and anything he kept would be important enough that he'd not give them up. Maybe he could tell the player of an enchanter somewhere else in the land, and upon the player mentioning Okan's name, have a disposition boost/small prize (I'm very much referring to Fargoth there ^_^)?
I suppose that’s true, so… Your idea would totally work! :goodjob: You would have to mod the enchanter in yourself, but other than that, go for it.
Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou
As to the exact nature of the reward for the apparatuses, and what he'll offer, I'll burn that bridge when I get to it. He'll not offer anything that can't be found and made by the player from things in Ebbedin (for now, until a future Supply Line quest/claim thing is done as mentioned earlier in the thread). Anyway, your method of showing the reward and all that is fantastic, and I understand just what you mean. As far as Relneth handling his reward, and Okan handling his own reward, separately, that is the case. The 'Big Reward' is on top of these individual reward, and is more of a thank-you for the player helping both of them through some issues. Okan won't contribute to the Big Reward unless he's got the tools to do so, through completion of the apparatus quest. The scrap quest will have its own separate monetary compensation, and the apparatus quest will have its own compensation too. The Big Reward is icing on the cake to keep the player coming back to Ebbedin.
Let me know if I've clarified that point well enough. 4 quests, 4 separate rewards, and a fifth extra reward on top of that to compensate for the 'smallness' of the other 4.[ /quote]
I’m still a little confused about how Okan-Shei contributes to the big reward, but I’ll trust your judgement.
Let me just make sure I understand about the quests, just in case I got a little confused somewhere along the way (and each of these has its own reward):
- Repair Hammer Quest
- First Scrap Metal Quest
- Repeatable Scrap Metal Quest
- Alchemy Quest
The “fifth reward” is just an addition to the big reward for the repeatable scrap metal quest if Okan-Shei has a full set of alchemy equipment.
[quote]Originally posted by ImaJunryou
In regards to using two variables, yes, I am. I've got it mostly set up too. The hard part is telling the player how much they've got left. with 6 brackets of possibilities, for each, its thirty-six different lines of dialogue for that part of the quest. I've got it covered though, so don't worry about the complication. Its actually really straight-forward. It just... looks scary. But its not! Works great (famous last words? ._.).
I’ll cross my fingers for you.
(just for clarification though, if there are only six possible brackets, how do you end up with 36 dialogue possibilities? I’m sorry if the answer is somewhere above, in which case I probably just missed it
hrug: )
Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou
As far as the journal entries go... That's probably going to be the very last thing I do. I'll add a single entry with a phrase "This is Stage X" into each stage, and see how things react. I'm not sure what to expect, but until I get to that point I'm not going to really worry about it. There's a few points that don't repeat that I can surely squeeze in any important information, and anything else can be handled by the scrap book and Relneth's dialogue.
Quest stages can update the player’s journal so the player knows what he/she needs to do next. Like I said above, I think the first run-through should use proper journal entries, then the repeatable quest can use variables or repeatable stages (I also said I’m not too familiar with repeatable quest stages or how they work
).
Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou
As far as dropping and keeping various armor types, and how that's all getting sorted out, I've finalised what I'm doing with it. This will also answer your question about why I wanted/needed to pair armors up. There's 5 armors that Relneth will ask for: Iron, Steel, Chainmail, Leather, and Fur. 1 out of 3 times, when he gives you the quest, he'll ask you for two of those five armors, instead of just one of them (Those matchups being Iron/Steel Steel/Chain, and Leather/Chain). If in the future other armors become available (chitin, and netch in particular), they should be simple enough to add in. It would require a slight tweak of a single variable in my script, a line of If N is X, SetStage to Y, and related dialog. I don't know about Bonemold, though. What is it? Is whatever material it is made of used anywhere else? Is it the same stuff as Relneth's shop, for example? The scrap Relneth gets is used mostly for odds and ends around the village, rather than for armor, as he doesn't get nearly enough customers to warrant the amount of scrap collected otherwise. If bonemold has more uses than as an armor, and if it is available in quantity somewhere in the world (respawning bandits somewhere, for example), let me know and I'll add it in gladly.
As far as how Relneth could use fur... Well... He's the village Handy-Man, I'm sure he has his ways I expect he salvages the leathery bits from it (at least, that's his reason he gives the player). I pretend it is treated differently than leather armor, making it less firm, but better suited for the elements, or somesuch.
I just looked into Bonemold, I found some info on the official ES site
(LINK):
[blockquote] Bonemold
Also known as 'Great House' armor in Morrowind, bonemold is a medium weight armor affordable only by Dunmer nobles. Each piece is assembled from many pieces of softened shell, molded into shape, then bonded and reinforced with resin glues.[/blockquote]
It could have some uses.
Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou
And yeah, reward-wise for the scrap quest, the player will be rewarded for each individual scrap quest, and also given an Extra reward every fifth one of these. So the fifth cycle will have 2 rewards, basically, but every cycle will have at least 1 reward. As far as timeframe for the quest, a static 7 days it is, though dialogue simplicity isn't really a concern for me anymore (All of Okan-Shei's greetings are disposition based, for example... It took 20 minutes for my best friend to persuade me from making it also racially based. That's on top of it already being based on the time of day). Let me know if that changes your opinion as to variable availability for the quest.
Nothing you said changed my opinion, but could you elaborate on what you meant?
Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou
As far as scripting in some sort of functionality, and requiring the script extender, and whatnot, I'm not sure what you are referring to... If it is detecting item value, it is just a hard number I've added in based on the values in the construction set. The scrap value for the items is that way too. So, I think we're ok on that front, unless you are referring to something else...
No, I was referring to actually retrieving item properties like weight and value via scripting (not manually inputting them). What you did sounds just fine.
Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou
As to how I'm handling the repeatable rewards, this is what I've got in mind. Every time the player completes a scrap quest, a check is made against a variable BigPrize. If that >= 5, the stage is set to 115. Else, BigPrize is incremented by 1, and the stage is set to 15 (resetting the quest, selecting a new material and a new material amount). If the stage is 115, it checks a variable BigTime, which tracks which award is being offered. If it is 1 the player gets this, if it is two the player gets that, etc, up to whatever the upper limit on my creativity with it goes. It'll cap eventually, and sit at somewhere (we'll say 10). There it will simply no longer increment, and the player will get whatever's at 10 repeatably. That one will likely be a random list, but all the ones before it will be a set thing, themed somehow. Such as first you get a sword, then a shield, then some armor, then some poisons, etc. Stuff that builds off eachother and makes it feel personalized. Ideally it'll be based on player skills. A check will run seeing the player's weapon skills and offer an axe or sword based on that, for example.
Once the reward is dispensed, BigTime is incremented (unless its at 10), BigPrize is reset to 0, and the stage returns to 15, restarting the quest, selecting a new material and quantity, etc etc, and the wheel begins a new turn. As far as the contents of the random list at the end, expect money, potions/poisons (based on the stage of Okan-Shei's apparatus quest), and spare weapons and armor from Relneth (I'm envisioning excess that's not selling, or that he simply can't fix. The items will have reduced stats, or lowered health for some, to be sold by the player elsewhere, or will have better stats, but simply not have a market in Ebbedin, and be gifted to the player to do with as they will). Enchantable stuff might (and that's a big might) appear in the leveled list, but with reduced item health (as in it starts damaged, and can be repaired), as Relneth won't have the tools to work with such things.
Remember that the ultimate judge as to whether or not something will work is an in-game test.
I can’t say definitively that what you are suggesting will work. Repeating stages in a quest makes me a little uncomfortable, I don’t know much about repeatable stages and not much information seems to be available on them either. I, in my own personal opinion, would recommend avoiding those if at all possible and just sticking to plain old scripts and retrieving variables.
I’d still be interested in hearing you elaborate a little more on how you’d use the stages (would you use GetStage, journal entries, result scripts…?) before you decide on that.
Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou
I'll look into safeguards for the item removal, though I'm not sure how to go about it... The items are removed in a dialog result script, as a response to a question from Relneth ('do you have iron?' 'Yes! I've got boots made of iron' 'hurray!' Removeitem boot). If I add a dialog condition for the player having it equipped, I'm not sure if that's going to make me double the amount of related dialog I've got there, if it is even doable (is there a GetEquipped for dialog? I'll look... Yes, ok), etc.
My main concern is if the player DOES have it equipped... then what? I see having two different lines of dialog for these possibilities. One runs if they've got more than 1 piece of that armor, bypassing the safeguard, and another running if it is just one, checking if it is equipped, and then offering another choice about wanting to give up what you've got equiped. That's a bunch more dialog if that's the route it goes. I can do it, for sure, but its going to get cluttered quick. When I say cluttered, I'd like to point out I've already got more than 45 topics for this one quest, not including variations within those topics. So, it is already cluttered in that sense, but this would add another layer of complexity, whereas the current 45+ topics are laid out somewhat flat.
Your thoughts?
You’re right, there is a lot to take into account. I’ll give it a little more thought. What is it like right now? Could you attach your file?
(Actually, a small edit here, look below at a proposed solution for the alchemy quest. Might be able to do something similar here)
Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou
As a final note, how do you make those nifty quote blocks? It'd really help in these big long posts of mine where I constantly refer to your referral of something I previously referred to... :eek:
You can add them in a [ quote ] tag with a matching [ /quote ] tag (note I put spaces in those ones so they wouldn’t turn into quotes themselves
). Alternatively, you can also click on the “Quote” button next to the “Reply” button underneath posts (they essentially do the same thing, only “quote” adds the quote block for you).
Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryouedit:
In related news, another bit of feature-creep I'm interested is one of these repeatable quests for Okan-Shei, for ingredients after the apparatus quest. This would expand Okan-Shei's selection of poisons and potions to possibilities beyond Ebbedin's flora. I'm hesitant to start planning such a quest, as it'd overlap with my future Supply Line idea, and also would keep this mod from review for another number of weeks beyond when I already thought it'd be long done -.- So, do you think such a thing would be nice to have, or should I save such a quest for a later broader claim down the road?
I agree with SACarrow:
Quote:Originally posted by SACarrow
I think additional quests can be added after initial merging; I hope to do that with a couple of my claims.
That would be the ideal situation. We should focus on getting one quest done at a time, making sure it’s working and stable before moving on to another one. We’ll discuss what to do then.
Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou
So, I'm running checks for whether or not the player has a particular apparatus on their person, so they can give it to Okan-Shei... Should I be running that check from Novice->Master, under the assumption that the player will want to keep the better stuff, or run in the other way under the assumption that the player will want to get the best reward? Right now, I'm leaning towards the first one, but I'd be happy for some input ^_^
I suggest something like this so the player can choose while saving some dialogue efficiency (no, I don’t know if it works. if it did, it would be really nice), start by having two questions:
If you have something that works, post saying so and don’t do anything just yet without backing up your file!
The type:
“What type of equipment do you have?”
Choice 1: Alembic – (Set [QUEST].StIjAppVar to 1)
“Ah yes, I needed a new Alembic for…” – Choice 5 “Continue”
(Also have a set of conditions to search for any alembic in the player’s inventory, and make sure Okan Shei doesn’t already have an alembic)
Choice 2: Calcinator – (Set [QUEST].StIjAppVar to 2)
“Ah yes, I needed a new Calcinator for…” – Choice 5 “Continue”
(Also have a set of conditions to search for any calcinator in the player’s inventory, and make sure Okan Shei doesn’t already have a calcinator)
Choice 3: Mortar & Pestle – (Set [QUEST].StIjAppVar to 3)
“Ah yes, I needed a new Mortar and Pestle for…” – Choice 5 “Continue”
(Also have a set of conditions to search for any mortar and pestle in player’s inventory, and make sure Okan Shei doesn’t already have a mortar and pestle)
Choice 4: Retort – (Set [QUEST].StIjAppVar to 4)
“Ah yes, I needed a new Retort for…” – Choice 5 “Continue”
(Also have a set of conditions to search for any retort in the player’s inventory, and make sure Okan Shei doesn’t already have a retort)
Choice 0: Nevermind – (Return to the main dialogue options)
“If you say so…”
(no conditions)
Now when you reach choice 5
“What quality is it?”
Choice 6 “Novice” – (Set [QUEST].StIjQulVar to 1, check for item)
“Really? Ah well, better than nothing…” – Choice 11 “Continue”
Choice 7 “Apprentice” – (Set [QUEST].StIjQulVar to 2, check for item)
“Okay, that should do.” – Choice 11 “Continue”
Choice 8 “Journeyman” – (Set [QUEST].StIjQulVar to 3, check for item)
“Good.” – Choice 11 “Continue”
Choice 9 “Expert” – (Set [QUEST].StIjQulVar to 4, check for item)
“Excellent!” – Choice 11 “Continue”
Choice 10 “Master” – (Set [QUEST].StIjQulVar to 5, check for item)
“Unbelievable!” – Choice 11 “Continue”
Choice 0: Nevermind – (Return to the main dialogue options)
“If you say so…”
To check for the item (you might have to put this in a separate script)… There might be a more efficient way of doing this, but this is to give you the general idea.
(start the script, StIjHasApp should be set to 0 when this is started. You might also want to add lines for quality and apparatus to the result code areas)
Code:
[QUEST].StIjAppVar == 0
If [QUEST].StIjAppVar == 1
If [QUEST].StIjQulVar == 1
If GetItemCount [Novice Alembic] > 0
Set [QUEST].StIjHasApp to 1
(remove the item)
Endif
ElseIf [QUEST].StIjQulVar == 2
If GetItemCount [Apprentice Alembic] > 0
Set [QUEST].StIjHasApp to 1
(remove the item)
Endif
ElseIf [QUEST].StIjQulVar == 3
If GetItemCount [Journeyman Alembic] > 0
Set [QUEST].StIjHasApp to 1
(remove the item)
Endif
ElseIf [QUEST].StIjQulVar == 4
If GetItemCount [Expert Alembic] > 0
Set [QUEST].StIjHasApp to 1
(remove the item)
Endif
ElseIf [QUEST].StIjQulVar == 5
If GetItemCount [Master Alembic] > 0
Set [QUEST].StIjHasApp to 1
(remove the item)
Endif
Endif
Elseif [QUEST].StIjAppVar == 2
If [QUEST].StIjQulVar == 1
If GetItemCount [Novice Calcinator] > 0
Set [QUEST].StIjHasApp to 1
(remove the item)
Endif
ElseIf [QUEST].StIjQulVar == 2
If GetItemCount [Apprentice Calcinator] > 0
Set [QUEST].StIjHasApp to 1
(remove the item)
Endif
ElseIf [QUEST].StIjQulVar == 3
If GetItemCount [Journeyman Calcinator] > 0
Set [QUEST].StIjHasApp to 1
(remove the item)
Endif
ElseIf [QUEST].StIjQulVar == 4
If GetItemCount [Expert Calcinator] > 0
Set [QUEST].StIjHasApp to 1
(remove the item)
Endif
ElseIf [QUEST].StIjQulVar == 5
If GetItemCount [Master Calcinator] > 0
Set [QUEST].StIjHasApp to 1
(remove the item)
Endif
Endif
Elseif [QUEST].StIjAppVar == 3
If [QUEST].StIjQulVar == 1
If GetItemCount [Novice Mortar & Pestle] > 0
Set [QUEST].StIjHasApp to 1
(remove the item)
Endif
ElseIf [QUEST].StIjQulVar == 2
If GetItemCount [Apprentice Mortar & Pestle] > 0
Set [QUEST].StIjHasApp to 1
(remove the item)
Endif
ElseIf [QUEST].StIjQulVar == 3
If GetItemCount [Journeyman Mortar & Pestle] > 0
Set [QUEST].StIjHasApp to 1
(remove the item)
Endif
ElseIf [QUEST].StIjQulVar == 4
If GetItemCount [Expert Mortar & Pestle] > 0
Set [QUEST].StIjHasApp to 1
(remove the item)
Endif
ElseIf [QUEST].StIjQulVar == 5
If GetItemCount [Master Mortar & Pestle] > 0
Set [QUEST].StIjHasApp to 1
(remove the item)
Endif
Endif
Elseif [QUEST].StIjAppVar == 4
If [QUEST].StIjQulVar == 1
If GetItemCount [Novice Retort] > 0
Set [QUEST].StIjHasApp to 1
(remove the item)
Endif
ElseIf [QUEST].StIjQulVar == 2
If GetItemCount [Apprentice Retort] > 0
Set [QUEST].StIjHasApp to 1
(remove the item)
Endif
ElseIf [QUEST].StIjQulVar == 3
If GetItemCount [Journeyman Retort] > 0
Set [QUEST].StIjHasApp to 1
(remove the item)
Endif
ElseIf [QUEST].StIjQulVar == 4
If GetItemCount [Expert Retort] > 0
Set [QUEST].StIjHasApp to 1
(remove the item)
Endif
ElseIf [QUEST].StIjQulVar == 5
If GetItemCount [Master Retort] > 0
Set [QUEST].StIjHasApp to 1
(remove the item)
Endif
Endif
Endif
(stop the script)
Now that the game knows if the player has the item (we just went through all of the possible items), Choice 11 can result in either a confirmation that he has the item (and the player’s done or just a few more to go), or a “where is it?” line.
Choice 11:
(If [QUEST].StIjHasApp is set to 1 and there are still pieces needed)
“Thank you. Remember to come back here if you find any other pieces of equipment”
(If [QUEST].StIjHasApp is set to 1 and all pieces are found)
“Thank you. I can now make potions for…”
(If [QUEST].StIjHasApp is set to 0)
“Wait a second, where is it?” (no result here)
Hmm… Now this could be an interesting solution for the armour Relneth takes too, but it would need a lot more code. :dunce:
Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou
There's an enchanter in the Steadhelm Mages Guild named Culumaira, a female Altmer. She's... Snooty ^_^ Stand-offish, and outright rude, really. She responds well to talk of Relneth, though, and after the fourth Big Reward, her attitude changes dramatically. She offers recharging services, and also sells Magic Items, though I'm not sure what those are... Enchanted scrolls, I imagine. I still need to add some of those to her inventory... If that's not what Magic Items refers to, then I'll need to change that
That sounds great.
I’m looking forward to meeting Culumaira.
[quote]
Originally posted by ImaJunryou
Anyhow, I've also changed the enchantment values on Big Reward 6. It is 15 points of Agility/Speed/Endurance and 10 points of Luck/Light Armor/Heavy Armor, for the shirt/light armor/heavy armor choices, respectively. I thought 5 points for those was a bit low, and thought 15 points of strength was a bit much when compared to the agility and speed bonuses (hence changing them to Endurance instead). Does that fit in line with things balance-wise? I'm used to playing with Oscuro's and that's distorted my view on things like enchantment values...[ /quote]
I agree with sandor.
[quote]
Originally posted by sandor
I would lower the values perhaps 10 and 5. [ /quote]
Try not to overpower items, because that can be quite bad for gameplay.