Ashlanders

[KuKulzA]

well no... but I mean what happens to them?
not their way of living... they want to preserve that.... but what will happen to them?

[syko]

I was reviewing stuff about the Native Americans... and it struck me that the plight of the Ashlanders is more like the Native Americans than I had first thought....
of course I had made the connection before... but...

Ashlanders need hunting and herding land... the Great Houses are taking that....
Ashlander fight with organically made weaponry... versus the more refined weapons of metal
Ashlanders don't truly understand the House-folk, and get tricked by them and defeated
The Ashlander clans are mostly disunited... the Great Houses are united political, military, and economical bodies
The Ashlanders refuse to give into popular settled culture and standards... they get marginalized
The Ashlanders are mostly nomadic, with lessening food and land, they will have fewer places to go and their lifestyle is threatened....
their disease immunity and medicine isn't high.... and they lived closer to the Blight than most....
their tribes haven't united, therefore their people will still attack one another
their people are misunderstood and despised... they have no friends in the outside world...


so... will their story end up being the same? ...I hope not... let's brew up ideas... not too long term, but in terms of this mod (in quests)

(remember, Ashlander names doesn't mean you are officially ashlander.... they are just the remnants of the original Dunmer/Chimer culture, the naming system, the language, the ideals, etc. So a Redoran could have a Velothi name.... but be a House-folk... obviously a more recently initiated one.... and probably an assimilated Ashlander....)

While it certainly would be a shame for the Ashlanders to share that fate, it seems to be the natural way of humanity (or elvinity, in this case) as we evolve; those who do not embrace the future are left behind to survive with only the resources that are not useful enough to the more modern world. While they will obviously struggle against this unfortunate truth, it is an inevitable outcome that they will either have to merge with the more advanced people or risk being further sequestered from the mainstreem population as it continues to grow and evolve, eventually losing everything inherent to their culture and lifestyle as the world unsympatheticly takes it and moves on. In this case the Ashlanders seem a little less likely to survive than the Native Americans did, as the other Dunmer and Imperials do not seem at least superficially empathetic to their cause, and will thus most likely destroy the Ashlander's culture so much that by the time someone does care or show regret, it will be far too late. Really, the only chance the Ashlanders have would be to unite, form their own political House, and diplomaticly pursue more friendly relations with the rest of Morrowind, hopefully eventually reaching an agreement which may help preserve their way of life, which by then would probably be resented for the more advanced lifestyle anyways. But, as that is very unlikely considering the Ashlander's small, tribal culture, they seem doomed to suffer the same fate as the Native Americans or any other tribal people throughout history, and because of their own culture, no less. As far as in game goes, I dont really see any other way of portraying the Ashlanders than you have already considered that will help them to retain their independant lifestyles.

[KuKulzA]

good point... tis sad but true...

considering the Ashlander have a lot of fight left in them... i think they will want to go down in a big last-stand....
they aren't cowards and keep low for now... but since there is no more BLight... colonization will be rapid... they need to stand up, get up and probably literally fight fo their rights... stand up for your rights... damn I've been listening to Bob Marley all day long already

your suggestion of Ashlanders making their own political party is intriguing....
the Telvanni attempt to establish influence and peace in the Grazelands by allying with the Zainab, the most powerful tribe in that area... the Hlaalu are trying to exploit them by attempting to trade with them about ebony...
*in the Vvardenfell mainquest I intended for there to be a giant Council, deciding what to do about _(threat)_ and members of all factions will be present.... and an assasination attempt, a conspiracy... lots of stuff ...perhaps the Ashlanders could be represented by an overall spokesman.... sort of like a Tecumseh.... Tecumseh, a Shawnee, tried to unite all of the tribes in the area (though the local chiefs kept their control) to fight off the "Americans" in the ar of 1812... maybe someone like him?





*(the main quest is far from even having a solid plot, just a lot of ideas semi-arranged; so don't be angry that I can't tell you for sure... the main quest is exclusively my arena, but you guys have a say in it.... I'm so nice)

[syko]

good point... tis sad but true...

considering the Ashlander have a lot of fight left in them... i think they will want to go down in a big last-stand....
they aren't cowards and keep low for now... but since there is no more BLight... colonization will be rapid... they need to stand up, get up and probably literally fight fo their rights... stand up for your rights... damn I've been listening to Bob Marley all day long already

your suggestion of Ashlanders making their own political party is intriguing....
the Telvanni attempt to establish influence and peace in the Grazelands by allying with the Zainab, the most powerful tribe in that area... the Hlaalu are trying to exploit them by attempting to trade with them about ebony...
*in the Vvardenfell mainquest I intended for there to be a giant Council, deciding what to do about _(threat)_ and members of all factions will be present.... and an assasination attempt, a conspiracy... lots of stuff ...perhaps the Ashlanders could be represented by an overall spokesman.... sort of like a Tecumseh.... Tecumseh, a Shawnee, tried to unite all of the tribes in the area (though the local chiefs kept their control) to fight off the "Americans" in the ar of 1812... maybe someone like him?

That sounds like a good idea to me, for it would allow them to at least halt the destruction of their culture, if not preserve it entirely. Of course I would imagine all of the other members of the council would attempt to influence that representative in hopes of gaining more land or power at the Ahslander's expense, so you would have to really think through all of the political issues that could arrise with that possibility. But it would be very interesting in the mod, especially if the player will be able to gain a seat on the council through one of the guilds/houses and interact with the various members. I think it would also solve the issue of how the Ashlander's will attempt to deal with their rapidly depleting way of life, as well.

[KuKulzA]

it sounds good...
in this case... their will be an NPC ashlander 'Tecumseh' for a spokesman... or you if you join the Ashlanders and advance far enough....


the Telvanni want to keep the Ashlanders around... as allies... to keep the remote places "safe" and to trade, etc.
Hlaalu want them for exploitation...
Redoran either want them dead or assmilated... pious Ashlanders becoming Redoran make pious Redoran
Indoril don't give a __ as long the Ashlanders aren't doing anything enormously bad to the Dunmer people in general.... like destroying Tribunal Temples....
Dres... don't .... care....
Imperials really don't trust them... and would rather they settle down and "civilize" or die...



*sigh* it's a tough world... it really is... preserve your traditions and get marginalized or "go-with-the-flow" and lose what your cultures have developed for hundreds of years.... I personally choose the middle road... best of both cultures ...but it doesn't always work out....
and for the ashlanders they choose between two extremely differetn lifestyles

[batman]

forgive a possibly silly question, but if the ashlanders were to unite and form a great house (something i think is a great possible idea to think about) wouldn't they unite under the nerevarine, or was that only in wartime?

[KuKulzA]

they WANT the Nerevarine to help lead them (despite outlander status), cause they respect him/her enough or a lot....

by the way....

"Aborigines go better with Coke"
(another example of how economical means transforms societies and destroyed traditional life....you guys come to this mod thinking your gonna mod, after all the work we all come away with more knowledge)

notice the mausement park in the back... with a Mayan pyramid thing... with a roller coaster going through it.... *sigh*


EDIT: did you know Taiwanese aboriginies did not stop their guerilla resistance until 1930s-ish.... when the Japanese occupation used poison gas attacks... harsh... there are 400,000 today... out of 22 million on Taiwan
so proud of Taiwanese.... but they are sorta lost... not sure if they should be more Pacific or more Chinese, prefer the Han Chinese style or the previous Japanese control.... Westernization or traditional... and I am ABC (american born chinese) but actually Taiwanese politically and nationality-wise... not aboriginal though

[syko]

That is interesting, and depressing, all in its own way. I think the best course for the Ashlanders to take is to go with the route you suggested, try to blend in via the council and their Tecumseh, yet still adhere to their ancient traditions and attempt to conserve them. Of course, wth all the different factions trying to exploit them in one way or another, they will have to be extremely careful, or they could end up following the unfortunate fates of so many real world cultures.

[Arbiter]

Most use from the Ashlanders have House Telvanni. They're free and independant mercenarys, just what Telvanni need.

[batman]

yeah but to get those telvanni went with mostly betmeri