Gideon Castle Thread

[Deeza]

I think I should point out that in the interior I made for the castle, there is a connecting tunnel between the two which leads to the dungeons. It uses a combination of the vanilla castle and vanilla dungeons set. This could, of course, be replaced if necessary, but just wanted to remind everyone it was there.

[jb3]

Because this one is part of beta, that's of course my prefference.

However...

The so-called 'Old Castle' is actually one thick tower. It's too small for the purpose. Honestly I don't know how we could convert the tower into a castle. These would need to be purely interiors and the trend would be to "dig" down only.

Indeed there seems to be a Castle Giovese in the Lore. As I tried to search, it was mentioned a few times and it seemed it was indeed near Gideon.

As I looked around in CS, there seems to be quite vast and empty area just North of Gideon. So my proposal is to place a seperate building north of Gideon, call it Castle Giovese. That would fit nicely. Perhaps it's an old castle, which was destroyed, yet then rebuilt. We could use that and make some sections of the castle very old, while the others will be renovated.

Dungeons under the castle, yes, I was planning that. My only concern is how big it will be, simply to be realistic.

My vision for Longmont was rather a haunted manor. Since this castle was mentioned in the Lore, we would need to be more careful and think how the exterior would actually look. It might be more of a mighty, ancient one, rather than purely a haunted manor type of a piece of real estate.

Last, but not least, shall we move this thread out of Archives please?

If we agree on this, can we perhaps prepare it in a form of a claim with a description? In that way, we will all know what is the scope of work. (I can take care of that if you want)

To sum it up:
How about constructing Castle Giovese as a separate building north of Gideon? (cells -26,3 -26,4)

[Ibsen's Ghost]

I moved the thread as per your request, JB3. Sound idea. :goodjob:

I'm not entirely sure about disconnecting the Castle as I don't like the idea of cluttering the landscape with lots of features. One thing we agreed upon during the development phase was that we didn't like coming across lots of settlements in Tamriel as it made it feel less wild. The West of the BM landscape is already a little cluttered in that sense and it was our intention to make it more wild and less built up. Granted, it's a ruined Castle and not an actual settlement but I like the idea of having space, all the same.

What do you think, Deeza?

Are you okay with the idea of using stroti's models as suggested: http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=37253 ? If you enter them in the CS under 'Giovese' or 'Gideon' in the Static-Architecture folder, that would probably the best place for them. Bear in mind the doors as well that need to be entered as 'doors' (strangely enough). I can add the items to the next archive if you let me know what filepaths you used for each item...

[Deeza]

Personally, I'd agree with Ibsen that it should be fairly close to the city. It's mentioned as being just outside it (within visible distance) and given we're working on a much reduced scale, that kinda puts it outside the walls.

Plus, as you said, the Marsh is supposed to be quite under-populated and unexplored compared to the rest of Tamriel.

[jb3]

Hmm... You're not making it easier, are you?

I'm not too hot to glue it to the city as it's going to be a significant structure. Not to mention that the textures and models will be different, so it simply might not fit. A seperate location, close to the city is what I prefer.

Of course, we can do everything, but I'd rather think and plan ahead, rather than mix apples and pears.

You will have enough wilderness and jungle all around. There should be a place for some structures, as well.

Also, bear in mind that I'll use stroti's models only as a base, so it will be easier and faster. Yet I'm going to re-work them to new stuff.

I can glue it to the city, but that will look ugly, I'm telling you that.

The closest we can do is make it as close to the city as possible, yet separate. I think that should be in synch with what you're implying: the castle is almost a part of the city. As a parallel, it's like in Oblivion cities, let's say Skingrad or Anvil, where the castle was very close to the city, yet separate.

Is that OK with you?

[Deeza]

not making it easier, are you?

Not intentionally, just trying to work out how best to fit it in whilst staying reasonably close to what we know from the lore. Trust me, if you want to see people making hard, you should try Tamriel Rebuilt sometime....

I think that diagram looks like a pretty good layout actually. I suspect you may be right that having it too close to the city walls would look pretty clunky given how poorly it would go with them, so I think there's room for artistic licence here.

[Ibsen's Ghost]

I guess a door could lead out from the Gideon Castle to Giovese but bear in mind the realism involved. Castles and cities are not well protected if there are doors leading directly in. You can defend the main gates with siege equipment and careful design but little doors...? I am aware there are Castles where this happens but I'm not too keen on making the city itself look easily impregnable. Hence the idea of walling off the walkway and having a rather cool-looking garden to the entrance.

The door will, of course, have to be locked and guarded. Other than that, I agree on the consideration of the texture differences. So yes, go with that.

As for the 'wilderness/jungle' space then I just wanted to reiterate what Deeza said: that we want to be as under-populated and unexplored as possible so try to keep it very close to the walls of Gideon.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with anyhow. Stroti's model was a nice work of work, I think. =)

[jb3]

Sure, that sounds reasonable. Deeza, it's fine. I perfectly understand. Indeed, some people seem to be crazily touchy when it comes to the Lore. And actually they have a point.

You're both right. This concept requires careful planning and praparation.

Although, from what I read, the all 3 of us actually seem to agree, isn't it? I think let's go with it.

Ibsen, I hear you regarding the defensive function of the castle, guarded door and techniques against a potential siege attack. However that would require some serious terrain modifications and tbh I don't see such terrain modifications. This would have implications. You mean, you want to do something similar as Skingrad Castle? It was on a hilltop and there was this long bridge leading to it. Nice, but the area around Gideon is rather flat.

I suspect you may be right that having it too close to the city walls would look pretty clunky

Is Gideon made of vanilla? Hmm... I bet you will not like this idea, but maybe we could work out some new models and actually "unify" them for both Gideon and Giovese? Yes, I know, they would need to fit BM's atmosphere and style. And I know... you don't like the idea. We don't have to do it. It's just some brainstorming... I didn't say anything. Did I say anything?

Another thing, there should be some stables outside. And perhaps a few other small huts, a garden etc.

Anyway, surely let's keep discussing and getting closer to the final shape of this structure.

At this point, I think we are a few steps from being ready to form a claim, is that right? How about I try my hand at it and we will modify the contents untill we reach a full agreement. OK?

Edit: What's wrong with Tamriel Rebuilt?

[jb3]

OK, I took a look at Stroti's manor. I also took a look at a fully adopted version, called the Red Rose Manor, which is just modding using the RavenHorst models.

I like what was done for Red Rose Manor and I envision something similar here. You have a quest to obtain the ownership, you need to find a key to the manor, then talk to the lady inside etc.

Red Rose is rather heavy deco, as are most of Oblivion's modded real estate. I'm not sure what your plans are and for what type of machines you plan to release BM. In other words, what FPS we should consider.

Stroti's is OK, it looks good. It's fine for a certain type of a building. So yea, it's a start. Although now I'm not really sure if I should start from Stroti's meshes or just do something brand new. I actually prefer the latter, because:

1. Stroti's mesh is a manor, while we are talking a castle here. I'm planning something approx. 5 times bigger than Stroti's mesh.
2. Ravenhorst looks quite raw, it's more of a keep. The construction I have in mind is more light with some towers, perhaps pointy towers, higher and smoother.
3. Ravenhorst looks too monumental. I'd like more adornments and decorations.

As for the size, I put Stroti's into CS. It's ridiculously small. See the screenshot, this is the space I'd like to work with.

[Deeza]

If you decide not to use the Ravenhorst mesh, remember that there's always the option of leaving it for use at Longmont at some point in the future.