In-game player hints

[Razorwing]

I've been thinking about a way we could give players the option to get extra game hints and advice while playing our mod, and would like to get opinions on it.

My idea is that when the player first loads the mod he's asked a question - something along the lines of "Do you want to turn on game hints for this mod?" If he answers yes, the script triggers the hints spread out in the world to become activated and visible. If he chooses no, they are turned off and invisible. I'm not sure in which manner he should be asked the question, because if it's just a scripted question he can't go back and make another choice. Maybe we could do it by placing an NPC along the road from Cyrodiil to Silgrad Tower? But I'm sure there are other ways to do it as well.

The game hints would come in the form of objects with attached scripts, so if the player has chosen to make them visible he'll get a simple pop-up message when clicking on them. The objects might be a translucent, glowing question mark model or something like that... it could be anything that isn't too jarring, but it should still be something the player can easily identify, because players who turn hints on probably won't care.

Game hints like that could be an easy and uncomplicated way to convey helpful information to the player without having to worry about making it fit with the style and atmosphere. Players who are sensitive to that could just turn them off and play traditionally.

A case in point could be a Velothi tomb which has a pit that can potentially trap the player without giving him any obvious means of escape, so if he didn't pack an Almsivi intervention scroll or such thing he'd really be trapped. The game hint outside the tomb could give the player a reminder that he's not in Cyrodiil, modders don't play fair, and that he should always save his game before exploring our tombs. :brew:

So, if it works like I pictured it, this way modders have an alibi and free hands in messing with the player and giving him real challenges, making it the player's own fault if he doesn't take advantage of the hints. There are other applications as well; for instance, one type of game hint could let the player know what level he should be to have a decent chance of completing the adventure ahead. Placing game hints or not would be up to individual modders to decide.

[noremorse]

It sounds very interesting, but it may just be easier to have an extra .esp to enable or disable instead of the scripts. A sort of mini-mod. That would give the player a chance to turn them on if he didn't do so from the beginning. Also, we wouldn't have to put as much work into it as the scripts, which we would have to write and attach to every single object we place in the game world. I believe that it would be easier to update as well.

[KuKulzA]

well... anyone who is skulking on these forums during developement might already know

....but...

I think ingame hints will already be present but at a minimum... quest givers might tell you what kind of things are best to bring, etc.; but there is no comprehensive advice... except in some cases...

perhaps we can make it very subtle...
for example... perhaps on your way Morrowind through the Ancient Gate, you meet a plainly blue dressed Dunmer woman, one foot bare. She asks you to find a shoe she dropped somewhere nearby.... it won't be too hard, but you will find the shoe behind a rock nearby. When you return it to her, she will smile, say thank you, and ask if you would like assistance later on and she would gladly give it to you...
at this point, this Dunmer woman is called "Kind Dunmer Woman" ...she is Azura
now, if you accept her offer she will smile and say, "alright, see you later outlander, you are a good person, I hope you will prosper in Morrowind. Good-bye serjo, perhaps we will meet again... someday"
if you decline her offer she will say, "You are very brave, this land is perilous. I hope the best for you... make friends, be cautious, and be respectful... good-bye outlander, and goodluck"

if you have chosen yes, then she will appear in several cities... she will appear in a different name each time...
her dialogue options would include whatever your quests are, good advice, 'Azura', and 'Kind Dunmer Woman'.
If you say 'kind dunmer woman' she will say,"What a generous heart you have helping a poor distressed woman who is a stranger... and you say you think I am her? I don't mean to insult your eyes but I am afraid I am not her. Infact you just seem to be a kindly person, and so I helped you, nothing great."
if you ask about Azura: "oh, she is a good Daedric Prince... she helps those who help her and she is kind and loving... they say she walks among us as a plain blue dressed Dunmer woman... "


how subtle... hehe... not really... but do you know what I mean?

[Harikari]

i think hints are a good idea, but try something less techy. Maybe a questionmark rock that is a activator with a small message hint , like "Save, this isn't Cyrodiil". Something small but useful

[noremorse]

I really like KuKulzA's idea very much. I think that would be even better than a purple, glowing and spinning transparent question mark. It wouldn't seem out of place, and would preserve the atmosphere much better, even for those who choose to use the hints.

[KuKulzA]

thank you noremorse
actually... I think that maybe if you visit an Azura shrine somewhere... on the right day, if you summon Azura... then she will appear and you can ask her about 'kind dunmer woman' and she will tell you it is her...

...and next time you meet a (kind Dunmer woman) who looks like Azura but is alays named something different when you ask her about "kind dunmer woman" she will say something like: "yes, long ago you showed an act of generosity when you were weary of travel... I appreciated that and I have assisted you along your way as I have offered"
when ask "Azura", she will say,"yes, you had summoned me and I had told you the truth, you are dear to me as I am sure I am dear to you... and I hope my assistance has been most helpful... "

just a thoughts :yes:

[horodnicdragos]

Hmm.....I have an idea!Of a script.We make a script.And if dificulty is lower than 50 some windows with information will appear.Like when you begin Morrowind.It tells you everything you have to do.Well something based on that.What do you think?

[Razorwing]

I agree with noremorse's suggestion of using a separate .esp for the game hints; that would be much smoother. You'd still need scripts on many of the objects though, I think? To handle the pop-up descriptions that can't fit into the title field of the object. But scripts like that could just be copy-pasted from other game hints objects and then you'd just need to change the pop-up text.

I'm not sure about KuKulzA's suggestion. For important quest hints and things like that it could certainly work, but that's not what I had in mind; I was thinking that this idea would give the player straight-forward gameplay tips that are free of the burden of lore and style. Like that he should save his game before proceeding further or that players below level 10 would probably be killed if they attempted a particular dungeon. I don't think we can have Azura lurking outside every dungeon Besides I fear that would add even more scripting to the mix, since she would have to be turned on or off or things like that for each encounter.

Harikari: How is that different from the original suggestion? ?(

horodnicdragos: hrug:

[horodnicdragos]

Well yea I think It is too hard to make a sript for this.Will consider the esp with hints as a cheat.

[raggidman]

Maybe we could create someting that is not so numbers descriptive - say an option in dialogue with the quest-giver as to his/her opinion of the player's chance to succesfully complete any quest.

Examples:
Look, if you want to try that's your funeral;

Maybe you have a chance, but...

You look like the sort who might be able ...

I would imagine that this would present no chalenge to you.

Other kinds of info might be offered in the shape of the fate of previous attempts, etc...

The Azura thing has merit as the last-ditch chance to warn whoever has accepted the 'hints option' that they are missing key items/skills. As in if you approach the quest destination withiut essential skills or items then you would 'happen' to meet a random-appearance 'local' who saw something, heard a rumour, whatever would be appropriate.

If you have asked for hints and you ignore people who approach you then that is your fault...so I would not be happy with 'flashing icons' - that is what I hate about many poor console games. It detracts from immersion.

In short I would always go for the subtler approach.

Anyone remember 'the Servants of the Dark Savant?' One of the strangest items for sale were bananas. Theywere no apparent use in the game, until halfway through you came to a gate with the switch on the far side guarded by a monkey. To get the banana you had to backtrack through half the game, you had already completed. Sad design.

I bet the quest creator thought this was a great idea, but I never met anyone who felt the same way. A lot of people just junked the game at that point, including hardened gamers, because they thought the developer was taking the piss.