Multiple collision materials

[Koniption]

Originally posted by Phaerus
Same problem now with the new multiple mopp collision for the village church.

I created new collision meshes for it, to drastically reduce the number of polygons, which was way too high, but it seems the new collision contains the same bug that's also causing problems with the candle holder.

Phaerus,

So your mult. MOPP collision for the church is crashing the CS as well?

I have not gotten around to testing your candle nifs yet. If you upload the problematic village church nif to send to me, I'd like that. That way, I can test all your problematic nifs, probably on the same day (maybe even today).

If the issue is fixable, it's most likely gonna be fixable with some Nifskope tweaks, is my gut feeling.

Koniption

EDIT:

Phaerus, I have figured out the issue:

http://www.filefront.com/17234204/PortCa...haerus.7z/

The fix to make your candles stop crashing the CS was pretty simple.

What was wrong, is that your Nifksope is not auto-sorting the hierarchy back to proper node order, whenb you save your nifs. The newer versions of Nifskope should do this automatically. I'd check to see what version of Nifskope you have.

If nothing else, before saving each nif, in NIfskope, do the following:

*Spells -> Sanitize -> Reorder Blocks

The above should reorder the node hierarchy properly. Save after doing this.

Koniption

PS - do this also on your village church nif. I have a feeling the same problem is happening there as well.

[Phaerus]

The text below was written before I read your post (I forgot to renew the page).

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Possibly a solution. Just like Razorwing does not apply a bhkrigidbody modifier to the collision meshes, I didn't do that either. But after today's crash with the church, I decided to explore that one a little further. I thought I could always first make a release with strips collision first and release updates with mopp collision later. Looking at the modifier though, I had among others a choice between strips and packed strips. I went for the latter. The collision meshes remained added to a bhk rigidbody helper and exported in groups to allow for the multiple collision, just like Razorwing advises in his tutorial. In Nifscope I saw that the actual collision was still mopp collision and under that block the packed strips collision, so just normal. I imported it in the CS and no problems whatsoever.

In short, perhaps I need to apply bhkrigidbody modifiers to the collision meshes after all AND add these meshes in turn to bhk rigidbody helpers. In any case, it still gives Mopp collision.

Or maybe it's just some kind of coincidence.
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What is interesting is that in both cases, the candle holder and the church, the collision was copied out of one nif into another. In the case of the candle holder I copied the old collision to the new meshes and in the case of the church, I copied the new collision (created with bhk rigidbody modifier) onto the older meshes. In the first case the collision wasn't altered at all.

[Koniption]

Phaerus,

See my edited post, above. I figured out the issue.

Koniption

EDIT:

Oh yeah, I tested your candle nifs in the game. They didn't crash the CS nor the game.

But when I hit them on their various parts, all I got was a stone shrapnel and sound reaction. I couldn't get the metal nor the wood reactions to show up, like what you had set in the two different MOPP collision parts. It seems to be defaulting to the bhkListShape's Havok material that is set, and I don't know why.

I'm recalling that multiple MOPP collision nifs didn't use to react this way: they had the proper individual havok material reaction from each of the Mopp shapes under the bhkListShape.

I did do some mult. Mopp testing for Niftools team a few years ago, but I can't remember everything that was found out. I know we couldn't figure out how to get mult. mopp like what Bethesda did, with all the various MOPP data's condensed under one bhkMoppBVTreeShape. So the next best solution was to do what you were doing to the candles, with mult. mopp shapes under a bhkListShape. But I could have sworn, that the individual mopp shapes under a bhkListShape each showed their distinctive havok material reaction when model was hit on proper part of its mesh.....

I might need to PM one of the Niftools team members, and see if this is a glitch or something...or if I'm recalling things wrong.

Koniption

[Phaerus]

Thanks for your help. A question. Does the hierarchy also refer to the numbers of the blocks. Right before me I have a working church, in which the bhkcollisionobject has number 173, right under the bsxflags block.

EDIT3: Having checked the files you uploaded, I see that the number of the blocks is in a logical order in your case. What's curious is why some of my nifs with weird ordering (and which my Nifscope can't adjust) do work in the CS, while others that seem to have to same problem make it crash.

The version of my Nifscope is 0.9.8. I vaguely remember having had problems with a newer version and got the advise to go with an older one. I'll try out a newer version.

EDIT1: But when I were to use the candleholder with candle for the purpose for which it is to be used, I can't use the mopp collision, but have to resort to primitive and convex collision instead, like Saidenstorm says. Would it be possible to have multiple material collision with those as well? Or should I then simply resort to single material collision?

EDIT2: When I do Spells->Sanitize->Reorder Havok Blocks, nothing happens, neither in the 'problematic' nifs I have, nor in the good nifs. I haven't looked at the file you uploaded. Going to take a look now.

[Koniption]

Originally posted by Phaerus
Thanks for your help. A question. Does the hierarchy also refer to the numbers of the blocks. Right before me I have a working church, in which the bhkcollisionobject has number 173, right under the bsxflags block.

EDIT: But when I were to use the candleholder with candle for the purpose for which it is to be used, I can't use the mopp collision, but have to resort to primitive and convex collision instead, like Saidenstorm says. Would it be possible to have multiple material collision with those as well? Or should I then simply resort to single material collision?

Yes, hierachy refers to the node numbers.

http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/ind...troduction

I think it may be possible to have multiple material collision using simple shapes and convex collision. But I haven't really tested this on my end, tbh.

Just make sure that any bhkTransformShapes and the actual collision shape that comes under those, have the Havok Material layer set to what that part of the candle should react like. And you do want to use a bhkTransformShape, instead of having a "T" on end of bhkRigidBody, to help game performance.

In the bhktransformshape, duplicate the Translation and Rotation data that is in the bhkRigidBodyT. Then zero out the bhkRigidBodyT, then delete the "T" on the end. The collision should still be in the same position after you do this and will work in the game just fine.

Koniption

Reply to your Edit#2:

What version of NIfskope are you using? Please post the Nifskope version number you are using, so I can compare it to mine.

Mine does not say "Reorder Havok Blocks", but only says "Reorder Blocks".

You might be using an old version of Nifskope.
The version I use is this:

http://niftools.sourceforge.net/forum/vi...f=4&t=2487

I use the download link right under "Download", and not under "Old Downloads". There is an even newer version out, but I'm holding off on getting it. It's still in Beta.

[Phaerus]

Thanks for your help, you have been very helpful. However, I'm running in yet another problem, for which I opened a new topic, Clutter problems, to avoid cluttering this topic (yeah, what's in a name).