Ratings and Policy

[raggidman]

Starting this thread to move content from another thread. Seems to me these matters are likely to be relevant to all our work here.

These are thoughts about how our work is affected by not only our own policy but also Bethsoft's, and a reminder that it's your end product that counts (don't matter how many posts you do.)

'pologies if this transfer has a result that is not so pretty as the original.

[raggidman]

In response to a comment by Lady Nerevar QF posted this gem:

Quentin Fortune
The Fourth Horseman



[meine Galerie]

Registration Date: 12.11.2002
Posts: 3,281
Location: Silgrad Tower, Upper Chambers 2




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Legally spoken, Morrowind and Oblivion are two different games and it is stated by Bethesda over and over again that you are not allowed to use content from any other game in their works - and this includes their own games as well.

Another reason for them is that, if MW contents would be used in Oblivion, it would mean people who have not legally acquired MW would be able to get hold of stuff from the game. And this can't be in the interest of Bethesda as a game company.

I personally assume that we will give lots of our models a major haul over once we see how Oblivion works model-wise spoken and what textures they hold in stock for us. So for me none of the things we present here are 'final products' and any discussion about how good it looks should be postponed until their ready.

Greetings

Quentin

__________________
That?s what a ship is, you know. It?s not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs, but what a ship is ? what the Black Pearl really is ? is freedom.


07.01.2006 21:34

[raggidman]

RW replies:

Razorwing
Administrator



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Registration Date: 24.03.2004
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Location: Sweden




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...[snip...
Lady Nerevar: Quentin sums it up pretty good. It goes for all assets from other Elder Scrolls games, not just textures and meshes. Music, sound effects, maps etc.

I had an interesting conversation some time ago that made me aware of the difference between assets and content, because I had used the latter word to describe Bethesda's stance when the actual word they used was assets. Modders aren't forbidden from reusing certain content from Morrowind and other games, meaning for instance what the TES4: Vvardenfell team is doing is perfectly legal. They could theoretically reproduce TES3 using every quest, dialogue response, NPC, et cetera if they wanted, assuming no assets were used. What that means for our own mod - and I'm by no means an expert - is mostly that we can bring back all the old book manuscripts if we want.

Quentin Fortune: About your last paragraph... uhm... feel free to elaborate on your thoughts regarding that!

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[raggidman]

Quentin Fortune posted this reply:

...snip...

Second: my previous statement is caused by a few things I stumbled over recently, which led me to the assumption that some after-work might be necessary once Oblivion is released.

- the fact that Bethesda made extensive use of various maps (like bumpmaps, specs etc.) which might need to be created for our models

- the fact that we don't know how our stuff will look like once it's in the game

- the fact that Oblivion might hold textures in stock for us that are better suited to our needs

In my opinion these are things to consider and have a closer look at once Oblivion is released. It is quite possible that all these considerations are in vain, but I like to be prepared.

Third: my previous statement was fueled by various comments I read somewhere that the models we're going to use for Oblivion look ... not good and are definitely not up to Oblivion standard.

I consider this extremely futile since nobody knows how the stuff will look like and I wanted to tell the unbelieving Thomases that they should hold their comments until it is the right time and not discourage people, who put a lot of time, effort and creativity in their work.
This is unfair.

...snip...

Greetings

Quentin

[raggidman]

raggidman
Moderator

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Registration Date: 06.01.2006
Posts: 113
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Between you all I feel you have come up with something original and a positive contribution to the game with xchaosdragon666x's scroll shelves, and that works in its own terms.

Since there will have to be so many technical changes once the game is released I think you have to think in terms of building up a library that is comprehensive enough that no matter what Bethsoft do in the end you will have a basis already in the pipeline that can be adapted to integrate.

And in preparation for this everyone is getting valuable experience not only in creating their own unique items, but also learning how everyone else does things, which will be massively valuable to the mod.

Since at this stage I feel that this is personal, exploratory work that we are co-operating on and we are not offering anything for sale so I am not worried about Bethsoft. They will say if they are unhappy with what we are doing.

When we feel that we are ready to offer the mod openly I am sure that Beth's Devs will be happy to take a look, and offer useful advice. And may be happpier doing so if they are going to start charging people for downloads as rumour speculates.

In the meantime it is important to give people feedback, and ancient, aged one that I am I have felt extremely grateful for the positive and critical support that I have been given, and I am not going to worry if I ask for help too often since I do not expect everyone to have the time all the time. I just see that help is given when people feel they have the time, and this makes for a healthy group.

This post has been edited 4 time(s), it was last edited by raggidman: 03.02.2006 22:10.

[raggidman]

RW picked up on an important gap in my response:

Razorwing
Administrator



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Registration Date: 24.03.2004
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by raggidman
"Since at this stage I feel that this is personal, exploratory work that we are co-operating on and we are not offering anything for sale so I am not worried about Bethsoft. They will say if they are unhappy with what we are doing.

When we feel that we are ready to offer the mod openly I am sure that Beth's Devs will be happy to take a look, and offer useful advice. And may be happpier doing so if they are going to start charging people for downloads as rumour speculates."

RW's response:

We will never charge money for Silgrad Tower.

Bethesda will charge money for their mods, that's true. But for anyone other than them it would be highly illegal to do that, and they'd come bearing down on ya like a herd of elephants. Though that's not the primary reason we won't. Personally I like the openness of the community and the way modders share their work freely, both amongst themselves and to players, and I'd hate to see that openness destroyed by greed.

[raggidman]

raggidman
Moderator

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Registration Date: 06.01.2006
Posts: 114
Location: where my heart is




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'pologies, I had to do a fast edit and deleted a thought about no downloads at this stage when I saw that we have an open offer to other modders to dowload certain stuff already, but missed out a bit, which gave what remained a potential skew...just goes to show, always get someone else to edit your own work!

...and yes, open sharing works best for learning, and is more fun - 2 good reasons to keep modding that way, and therefore important to remember that any written work is the intellectual property of the first person to write/record it.

So it is reasonable for people to believe that they are welcome to download our efforts for personal use and good that you have written provisos stating the terms under which other people are welcome to use our work elsewhere = creating a safe working environment and all part of the fun.