Trade

[Oldphart]

One thing I always wanted to improve in Morrowind was the trade system. With the improved AI and scripting in Oblivion, it seems that it is more practical.

What I would like, is a level of supply and demand. All items should have producers or gatherers as well as traders and consumers. Travelling merchants would purchase stuff where it is abundant and cheap, and sell it at a profit in places where it is in demand and more expensive.

This is likely to cost quite a few CPU cycles, but I suspect that by the time it is finished that will not be any problem.

Are the others here interested in something like this?

[Zarf]

This would require a bit of scripting, which as far as I know of, we don't have much talent in at the time.

But it sounds cool. I'd love to see merchants and pack guars actually doing stuff.

[raggidman]

:wave: welcome to Silgrad Tower Oldphart - I guess you have the talent to script this? If so, go for it, and let your accomplishment convince everyone that we cannot mod without it!

Even if the Core can't be convinced immediately, I would imagine that in the process you would come up with some very useful spin-offs from such an intense project.

One thing that will be crucial at the start of ST for Ob 4 will be processing and memory requirements. after the mod has been out a year or two people will have jumped ahead in the hardware stakes, and the cost of upgrading will have dropped...

[Oldphart]

I have started to look at the way the Oblivion AI is used, and there is a lot to learn, but I have mastered dozens of different programming languages and development environments before so I do not se that as a problem. The problem will probably be how much time and effort I will be able to put into this.

I expect it will take some time to finish, and even today CPU power and memory is rather cheap, so I do not think script overhead will be a problem. Unless you run at a very low graphics quality, Oblivion will not stress the CPU. I run at 1600x1200 with all but self shadows and HDR turned on. With an Opteron 165 using the AMD standard cooler and an Asus EN7900GT, the CPU fan is hardly ever above 1000rpm. The graphichs card is running full tilt, though.

I will need some help to get started. How do I set up a separate test game on a different disk from the one I am playing?

[Oldphart]

for a decent level of realism, we will need producers for the trade items. i would expect Silgrad to have more or less the same products as Oblivion, with some small local adaptations. There is beef and cheese, but no cattle. Is somebody into making cows and, not least, oxen? The oxcart would be the most logical transport for heavy goods. They are slow, but cost effective. Horses eat too much expensive food to be useful as work animals in a pre-industrial setting.

There is also the matter of iron. I have not seen any iron mines. Bog iron will make good wrought iron, but for volume production I would expect some iron mines will be needed. Some copper mines should also exist somewhere. The stuff can be imported from other provinces, but we need to know from where and how to fit it into the known lore. I would expect orcs to be iron miners. They might also know about the use of coal. Other smiths, and all iron smelters, would need lots of charcoal. Since we have plenty of forests nowadays, we only need to have some tough woodsmen who chop up firewood and make charcoal. They would also supply cities with firewood. Firewood is a big trade item for city folks, and if supplies fail there will be problems. Thus, there will be quests to get nasty critters away from the wodcutters and the trails they use.

[Zarf]

I like these ideas... iron mines are a must. Copper, maybe not so much. Also, Morrowind natives used Guar as pack animals in TES3, so I'd assume we don't need to make oxen unless we really need to. Animals like that are notoriously hard to get just right.

[raggidman]

You do not seem to know much about Elder Scrolls Orcs, Oldphart - if you play ES games you will discover that Orc Weapons are very special and highly prized - try playing Daggerfall where orc weapons are almost at the top of the Weapon Tree.

Also up 'till now the only mines that have been created have been for the highest grade weapons and armor materials and the most expensive gems - now if you want to mod iron and copper mines - please do submit your works to the Core - but consider that there is a balancing act going on of reality or fantasy vs processing and memory requirements ...

As for how and where to start there are tutorials in the FAQ, but I suggest that you have a chat with some of the experienced modders here - just go through a few claims and you will see who gets advice from who and who has done what...

[Oldphart]

Originally posted by raggidman
You do not seem to know much about Elder Scrolls Orcs, Oldphart - if you play ES games you will discover that Orc Weapons are very special and highly prized - try playing Daggerfall where orc weapons are almost at the top of the Weapon Tree.
.

I have read all the lore available in Morrowind books and at the Imperial Library, but they do not mention too much about mundane things like crafts and trades.

It is just because orc weapons and armour are so good that I think orcs ar the ones most likely to have extensive iron mining and possibly use bitumenous coal in ther smithies.

To make good steel from primitive iron, you need to be able to beat it a lot while it is really hot. If you have ever seen an old fashioned blacksmith at work, you will understand that orc strength is a definitive advantage.

Anyhow, I think we need some supply of raw iron and charcoal or coal for all the smiths selling weapons. Iron and coal can be mined locally or it can be imported, charcoal is so bulky that it needs to be produced locally. They are very important strategic resources, so I think we need to establish where they come from.

If we look at real-world England a thousand years ago, they imported most of their iron. They got low-grade iron from mines in Spain, and high-grade iron from Scandinavia. The latter was mostly bog iron, but also some Swedish steel from ores containing manganese. All metals are precious in a pre-industrial setting, and can be traded over long distances.