Vertex shading in Oblivion

[Razorwing]

I've always thought it strange that model textures in TES III: Morrowind never looked repetetive despite using bland, generic textures and being tiled over and over. It's been mulling in my head for quite a while.

I finally decided to check it out, and opened one instance of NifSkope showing a TES3 nif, and one showing one of my nifs. And there it is. TES3 used vertice shading on their models to create fake shadow detail and other effects that kept them from looking bland while not requiring custom skins to achieve the same effect. Essentially it's the same thing you do when painting shadows on the landscape.

With Oblivion's lighting system it isn't always necessary to add vertice shading, but it seems particularly useful for models used predominantly in exteriors, and which have very large, samey surfaces. Case in point, the Redoran citywall, which has to be huge to occlude the view of the emptyness outside the walls, but which looks downright bad because the texture has to be tiled so many times. A bit of vertice shading on it would go a long way, but the question is:
Can vertice shading be exported with the Civ4 NIF Exporter?

I'll read up on the technique and maybe do some tests, unless anyone knows the answer and lets us know before then.

[gundalf]

Originally posted by Razorwing
I've always thought it strange that model textures in TES III: Morrowind never looked repetetive despite using bland, generic textures and being tiled over and over. It's been mulling in my head for quite a while.

I finally decided to check it out, and opened one instance of NifSkope showing a TES3 nif, and one showing one of my nifs. And there it is. TES3 used vertice shading on their models to create fake shadow detail and other effects that kept them from looking bland while not requiring custom skins to achieve the same effect. Essentially it's the same thing you do when painting shadows on the landscape.

With Oblivion's lighting system it isn't always necessary to add vertice shading, but it seems particularly useful for models used predominantly in exteriors, and which have very large, samey surfaces. Case in point, the Redoran citywall, which has to be huge to occlude the view of the emptyness outside the walls, but which looks downright bad because the texture has to be tiled so many times. A bit of vertice shading on it would go a long way, but the question is:
Can vertice shading be exported with the Civ4 NIF Exporter?

I'll read up on the technique and maybe do some tests, unless anyone knows the answer and lets us know before then.

VERY good idea, I completely forgot about them. It seems to work (see screenshot... have I told you how much I love screenshots? ). I'll add support for them to ... you know what. Ahh heck it's official anyway, but please make a separate thread to discuss it. I'm open to suggestions....

[Axen]

Hmm. Well, that explains the shadows staying exactly the same on Redoran buildings even with texture replacers.

[Caligula Superfly]

Yes, that would go along way on alot of the models. Sound like collision won't be the only thing we have to go back and fix.

Blender has vertex painting (never used it, but I know its there). I think I will be able to take nifs and shadow them up.

[mmmpld]

Has anyone made any progress on this? I'm working on Harvest [Containers] and finding many of the furniture objects use vertex colors. I'm rather new to modelling so I'm not sure what the best way to get vertex colors into Nifscope would be, assuming it's even possible at this stage.

[gundalf]

Originally posted by mmmpld
Has anyone made any progress on this? I'm working on Harvest [Containers] and finding many of the furniture objects use vertex colors. I'm rather new to modelling so I'm not sure what the best way to get vertex colors into Nifscope would be, assuming it's even possible at this stage.

Well it works with the new max exporter. The CivIV exporter supports them, too. You have to apply a Vertex Paint modifier to your object and then you can use a brush to paint it. Dunno if the .obj format supports vertex colors. If it doesn't you could try the .nif export scripts... (I don't know what you use...)

[Razorwing]

I can cooberate that the vertex shading feature works perfectly, and my local copy of the Reich Parkeep mod is looking substantially better in the places where I've used it.

[mmmpld]

Thanks for your help. I've managed to find what I need thanks to a random google result here. In blender you need to have VCol Paint button pressed in the materials panel. You also need to export as .nif from what I can tell.

As for what I use, whatever I have to (prefer Maya).

[Zarf]

This negates having to render shadows in to textures, to an extent. WOW.

[Razorwing]

Originally posted by Zarf
This negates having to render shadows in to textures, to an extent. WOW.

True, but it's impossible to get the same smoothness and control with vertex shading as you achieved on your full maps