TSRI0108 "Blackrose: Helga's Hostel" (Completed)

[jb3]

Almost done. Here is the file as of now: http://www.filefactory.com/file/ccae136/...oft01.esp . The filename as per the cell name in the .esm

Already done:

• Object placement fine-tuning
  
• Decor enhancement
  
• Lights
  
• Books added to reflect Helga/Grey Wizard's Rest tavern guy relationship.
  
• Helga NPC created
  
• Path Grids edited
  
• NPC AI done
  
• NPC Dialogue done (one small thing, see below)
  

On the technical note, I have problems running BM. I had to disable tons of my mods, to be able to see the textures. Still, when I enter Helga's place, my character sort of hangs in "nowhere" and nothing around is rendered. So I can't check the results in game-mode. Same happens outside of Helga. For whatever reason I'm not getting the updated textures/models. What might be the reason? How to fix that? I got updates 9-12 as well as BSAMixer, replaced the wrong folder. This new stuff should be visible in the game.

A quick question: when working with the NPC Dialogue, I had to refer to jucklesjenk tutorial. When in Quest -> Topics -> Add Topic, the 'Editor ID' and 'Display Text' are the same by default. I can't seem to edit this. When I press F2, I can edit the ID, but not the 'Display Text'. How do I change it?

[Ibsen's Ghost]

I'm afraid I'm not great on dialogue myself so I'm hoping someone else can chip in and enlighten you there.

As for the items, the most important thing is to make sure that any folders and files you download are definitely placed in the correct places. Another good tactic, if you have a large enough hard drive, is to unpack everything in the bsa into your data folder using something like OBMM (Oblivion Mod Manager). I do this just to make sure I can see everything and manage my files as well as possible...besides being able to see textures in NifSkope which tend not to show up if they're only in a BSA file. It's worth checking this stuff as it's easy to make mistakes.

I'm not in the least bit surprised you struggled with this interior as there is still no 'see-through' interior model enabled in the CS....that must have been a nightmare to mod. Anyway, I just added the new models using your esp and will upload your work to the esm thread for sandor to merge. Once this is done then you'll be able to switch the old 'model' architecture models for their 'int' model equivalent. To do this, just use the 'Edit' - 'Search and Replace' option.

As for the items that don't sit right, you might have snap-to-angle or snap-to-grid selected (two little icons beneath the word 'Character' on the main menu of the CS). Alternatively, when selecting an object that you need to have 'grounded', just hit the f key and this should place them properly.

A few pointers: the Hibiscus wall-flowers are cool but are not going to work as the model itself is 'collisioned' meaning that it will fall to the ground when you go in-game. I think it's possible to make non-collisioned versions but I'd need to check with KP how to do that. A great pity! They look good.

Also, the 'Hostel' must have more than one bed for the owner. It's tricky because the area is so cramped but I will adjust the esp accordingly and add scripts and so on to enable its use as a hostel.

Anyway, it's probably best for me to take over with this one because I'm really struggling for time lately but I know what needs to be done. Just remember that until this esp is merged then you might be best off leaving the Blackrose claims as working on a non-see-through model is going to be extremely tough. Sorry to hold you back....you were doing so well! :goodjob:

[jb3]

OK, I finally managed to make all the BM resources work in Oblivion. It took me a couple of hours, to be honest.

So I took a look at Helga place in-game. It seems that lights need adjustment. And yes, the hibiscus behaved weired. The text in the readables had something funny in the beginning, needs checking. Other minor bugs as well.

I didn't have a problem with the no 'see-through' interior model. You can work around that. Although I admit it was a bit funny at first. The place is very small, very narrow. As a result, the NPC path grid is tricky. I don't think the NPC goes upstairs.

In the basement there is a part of the building model, which is empty, looks like doors. Not sure if this was intensional.

Originally posted by Ibsen's Ghost
A few pointers: the Hibiscus wall-flowers are cool but are not going to work as the model itself is 'collisioned' meaning that it will fall to the ground when you go in-game. I think it's possible to make non-collisioned versions but I'd need to check with KP how to do that. A great pity! They look good.

Well, can't we simply make a new BM object and apply the mesh/texture to it? Any reason against it?

Maybe you envisioned this village as more of a simple one, a rough place? Is Helga a hibiscus decorative type or a grumpy witch? :bananarock:

Originally posted by Ibsen's Ghost
Also, the 'Hostel' must have more than one bed for the owner. It's tricky because the area is so cramped but I will adjust the esp accordingly and add scripts and so on to enable its use as a hostel.

Wait, is my understanding correct? I thought the owner's bed was upstairs and the guests beds were in the separate cell with the basement door leading to it?

Helga needs more than one bed? Hmm, interesting. She must be fat. Damn, I need to change the NPC then.

Which reminds me, the NPC should get a Dialogue to rent a bed. Is that right? This wasn't done.

Originally posted by Ibsen's Ghost
Anyway, it's probably best for me to take over with this one because I'm really struggling for time lately but I know what needs to be done. Just remember that until this esp is merged then you might be best off leaving the Blackrose claims as working on a non-see-through model is going to be extremely tough. Sorry to hold you back....you were doing so well! :goodjob:

Again, no problems at all with the 'no see through' building models.

Sure, if you think it will be easier for you to do it yourself. I can make the changes per this message, your call. If not, please advise which claim you want me to take.

Alright, think about it and let me know your decision.

[Deeza]

(1) I'm afraid I don't recall what I was planning to do with that empty bit in the basement. Please feel free to do away with/modify it as necessary.

(2) Yes you can apply the mesh and texture to a static object. Just make sure you duplicate the mesh and put it in the static file with a new name.

(3) Blackrose is supposed to be a really rough, nasty town that nobody visits if they can avoid it. Although, Helga might well be going out of her way to pretty the place up to attract business, given that this is the case.

(4) Yes, the idea was that only she will use the bed upstairs. Only the ones downstairs will be used as a hostel.

[Koniption]

Originally posted by Deeza
(2) Yes you can apply the mesh and texture to a static object. Just make sure you duplicate the mesh and put it in the static file with a new name.

Actually, let me alter the Hibiscus ingredients to have proper collision, for both the havoked versions, and the static versions that jb3 needs.

I just saw and realized, that even the clutter & havoked hibiscus flower ingreds, still have the wrong type of collision, which can hurt game performance....crud.

It won't take me too long to do. I'll start on it in a few minutes.

Koniption

[jb3]

That would be helpful, yes. The hibiscus acted really strange, started jumping all over the place. Unless Helga intended to set a trap, I don't think we want this to happen. :lmao:

I decorated the place out of context. I didn't know what kind of a dump place we're talking about. In such case, this needs simplification. Also, we might make Helga a bit older. And the tone of her affair with the tavern folk might be adjusted to reflect the age/environment (yak, I read that the guy sleeps on a mat behind the counter).

I'm hesitant if I should proceed, as Ibsen expressed the interest to do it himself. I read that he is real busy lately. In order not to hold things, I will take freedom and proceed with applying the changes later today.

@Deeza:
1. I could expand it and add a room. Or block it with some kind of a cover.
2. That's what I would do.

[Koniption]

@ jb3 and Ibsen:

Here are the fixed Hibiscus flower ingreds (with a new "Static" version included, in the "clutters" folder):

Koniption

[Ibsen's Ghost]

We'll have to wait until the next BSA update to use those hibiscus flowers properly. They will still need to be positioned by I checked in-game for how they are at the moment and they appear to be fine...albeit standing way off the walls. Oh, but I did notice that if you touch them in-game, they fly off.

Anyway, I adjusted quite a few things. I first changed the model so you can now see through it. Just use the search and replace function and delete the beams in future but bear in mind that you will not be able to use the search-and-replace until this esp file is merged into a new esm.

I adjusted stuff that was hanging at odd angles, added a few small bits and pieces and rejigged the pathgrids.

I only just noticed the hostel part!!

Anyway, I changed Helga to a MerchPublican and added a key to the trapdoor and an appropriate script. I also noticed you hadn't ticked 'offers services' on your AI package. This is needed or she won't offer you lodgings. However, I checked in-game and it still wouldn't work.

@ Anyone - I'd appreciate some help with working out why the above isn't working. If someone who's familiar with scripts can download this file and check it out that would be very helpful!

Finally, I noticed that the temple outside was huge. This is due to receiving a new temple model from morcroft as part of the new assets. Now there is no reason at all why this shouldn't be an appropriate size since I re-adjusted LOTS in Blackrose with my one of my esps and this was one of those things so I haven't a clue why that's happened. X( Can you check if it's the same for you, too?

[Koniption]

Hi IG,

I have downloaded the esp, and will try to see if I can figure out why Helga isn't offering her services.

I'm not the best at scripting, and have never played around with getting merchants & trainers & the like to work, but I will still try to see if I can figure it out.

By all means, if anyone wants to also take a crack at this, feel free.

I have not been to Blackrose yet, in BM mod, in the game. So I'm a little foggy as to what size the "temple" should actually be.

Will it stand out like a giant sore thumb? How will I know?

Koniption

[Ibsen's Ghost]

Yes, you won't be able to walk around the walkway because the temple is so big. There should be a noticeable mound in the centre with the temple sitting neatly on top of it. Check out these pics for an idea of how big it should look: City Planning Thread 1: Blackrose .