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KuKulzA · 06-19-2006, 01:44 AM,

to update this... we are doing both... but the mq situation is a bit unsure right now...

EDIT:
mq faction so I moved it

TheImperialDragon · 06-23-2006, 05:25 AM,

Well, I'd do neither.

The reason for this is as follows:

Any faction relying on the temple has crumbled - look at Indoril - or is slowly bleeding to death - Redoran.

As for the Temple itself, it no longer has any gods to worship, except perhaps Vivec as mentionned earlier in this forum. Furthermore, with Helseth as Morrowind's leader, the population will be more influenced by the Imperial Cult than by the Temple (which has no known ruler).

And for all we know, Vivec may have been killed by the player in TESIII.

If I HAD to choose one though, I'd choose the Buoyant Armigers, as they seem more self-reliant (to me).

KuKulzA · 06-23-2006, 12:23 PM,

the Ordinators DO rely on the Temple and vice versa...
however I don't think they'd give up that easily...
and on Vvardenfell, Indoril lands, Redoran lands, and some of Dres lands the Temple is still dominant...
Imperial Cult is only growing dominant in Hlaalu and some Dres lands....

the Ordinators are part of a huge bureaucracy called the Tribunal Temple that contains the most religiously devout of Morrowind, some of the most fearsome warriors of Morrowind, and a large portion of the wealth in Morrowind.
Remember, Indoril WAS still the most powerful House DESPITE donating people and money to the Temple. And this is not necessarily influence power (which they did had thanks to the Temple) but also land, army, and economy which they were most powerful in... even while helping to support a Temple by sending thousands of mer to be Ordinators and priests and such and thousands of goods and gold to help fund the Temple and the charities...

and yes the Armigers are more self-sufficient, however they need Vivec, their whole faction is centered aroun the god-man they love and protect and fight alongside with... they are his warriors, companions, and lovers

TheImperialDragon · 06-23-2006, 04:13 PM,

But in Oblivion, we hear that Helseth and Dres are picking at what remains of Great House Indoril... So what exactly happened to Indoril? Did Helseth virtually destroy it? Did all its supporters leave?

Ebonyknight · 06-23-2006, 04:20 PM,

Just my thoughts if worse comes to worse i could see this happening. The temple indoril and ordinator are connected to each other. If one goes into decline all slowing fall with their brother. So why not combine to make a certain power. They would have the most land imagine the Temple land now with the Indoril land mixed together could have a chance against the Dres armies in the South. They would have Indoril Armies Ordinator Divisons and Priests backing them up.

KuKulzA · 06-23-2006, 04:22 PM,

ok this is what happens to Indoril...
BEFORE the Imperial invasion they dominated Morrowind politics, they and the Temple
the Temple was the government of Morrowind and the religion
however House-wise Indoril ruled the most land and was the wealthiest, most powerful and most advanced....
the Indoril swore they would protect Morrowind to the last and were joined by Dres and Redoran. The Telvanni stayed mostly neutral. The Hlaalu joined the Empire's side. The Tribunal tried to fight the war out but it lasted 80 years. Thus they made an armistice. This armistice continued...
however the Indoril nobles swore to the Tribunal but the Tribunal made peace... and so in shame and frustration they "kept their honor" by commiting suicide rather than submit to the Imperials....

thus the Indoril are weakened...
and the Hlaalu make coups and raids and take a huge amount on west-centra;l Morrowind along the Thir River. They also become the rising star of Morrowind.

Now Helseth marries a Dres noblewoman and unites Hlaalu and most of the Dres (some refuse to submit). Now they have border wars with Indoril. The Indoril try to fight but when the news of the deaths of Almalexia and Sotha Sil leak out the the 'disappearance' of Vivec... many nobles commit suicide again...
thus the Indoril are severely weakened just as they are about to come out of decline and were able to rival Helseth but now their leadership is nearly gone.

that is why the Indoril are in such bad shape, their leadership is bad, not their power. Their nobles mostly commited suicide due to an over inflammed sense of honor and arrogance.

also, the Dres, though traditional allies of the Indoril are not as high and haughty, they aren't noble-type of people they are a darker more treacherous style. Think of Indoril as the "sick man of Morrowind" like the Ottomans were the "sick man of Europe"... the Indoril were powerful for a long time but went into a few declines and have been gradually shrinking and dying.

[/hr]

that's the problem... the Temple is also a bit proud... they feel like they are "above" the secular activities...
but IF the Temple joined with any ONE of the Houses, that House would be like super-charged... the Temple has about 30% of the land's wealth... and a huge army... and experienced leadership...
if the Temple merged with Indoril to make say the Great Temple Indoril...
the Indoril would dominate...
however the Temple is like ascending one's clan or House, and going to a higher organization to serve the entire Dunmer people... so Temple folk will feel slightly above the politics....
though in truth the Indoril's decline means a slight delcine in Temple power since Redoran and some Dres can't hold it up as well as the Indoril can

Ebonyknight · 06-23-2006, 04:26 PM,

Isn't Dres the most none known house. Any yea why not remake house indoril promote people rebuild the temples to worship Saints and fight back the ongoing invasion?

KuKulzA · 06-23-2006, 04:31 PM,

well Indoril are loosing leadership cause of the suicides...
and Dres, well they don't mind turning on Indoril.. but they weren't HUGE into Temple in the first place...
they are the most traditional of all the Great Houses...
they still worship Daedra and ancestors IN ADDITION to Temple..

think of the Ashlander culture except blended into a House culture... the Dres was the last Great Houses to be founded and the most traditional... and also they are out for themselves... althought a lot fo the new generation of nobles likes Helseth, most of the commoners and older nobles and councilors like their old ways... but the younger nobles are the new generation of leaders... and Helseth married into them when he married a Dres noblewoman... and family means a lot to most Dunmer especially Dres so they might not like him, but they fight for their kin

Axen · 06-23-2006, 04:45 PM,

Quote:From "Great Houses of Morrowind"
House Indoril and House Dres are the two Great Houses without holdings or interest in Vvardenfell. Indoril District occupies the heartland of Morrowind, comprising the lands south of the Inner Sea and the eastern coast. The city of Almalexia is located in Indoril District, and the Indoril are orthodox and conservative supporters of the Temple and Temple authority. House Indoril is openly hostile to Imperial culture and religion, and preserves many traditional Dunmer customs and practices in defiance of Imperial law. Dres District is in the south of Morrowind, bordering the swamps and marshes of Black Marsh. House Dres is an agrarian agricultural society, and its large saltrice plantations rely completely on slave labor for their economic viability. Always firm Temple supporters, House Dres is hostile to Imperial law and culture, and in particular opposed to any attempts to limit the institution of slavery.

KuKulzA · 06-23-2006, 04:48 PM,

Quote:Originally posted by Axen

Quote:From "Great Houses of Morrowind"
House Indoril and House Dres are the two Great Houses without holdings or interest in Vvardenfell. Indoril District occupies the heartland of Morrowind, comprising the lands south of the Inner Sea and the eastern coast. The city of Almalexia is located in Indoril District, and the Indoril are orthodox and conservative supporters of the Temple and Temple authority. House Indoril is openly hostile to Imperial culture and religion, and preserves many traditional Dunmer customs and practices in defiance of Imperial law. Dres District is in the south of Morrowind, bordering the swamps and marshes of Black Marsh. House Dres is an agrarian agricultural society, and its large saltrice plantations rely completely on slave labor for their economic viability. Always firm Temple supporters, House Dres is hostile to Imperial law and culture, and in particular opposed to any attempts to limit the institution of slavery.

yes they do support the Temple... they just aren't totally focused on it.. they retain most of their own practices and family burial grounds and certain rituals and such... as well as some Daedra worship... but they do support it
but times change... the Nine Divines is getting popular with a lot of Hlaalu peoples and Dres nobles (younger ones) and Helseth is spread his control through blood-line.... he is Hlaalu, and he is married into the Dres... so this appeals to the clan-ship or familial attitude of the Dunmer, they re more willing to fight for their own clansmer or relative than sometimes a traditional ally...