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Cleitanious · 06-18-2006, 02:54 PM,

I accidentally tagged every single cell in Tamriel without causing a crash either. So tagging things isnt what is limited apparently.

Multiple ESPs will not work with any large project, Silgrad Tower would never work that way for one, neither would split infinity, my project or any other similar projects. Something as small as a City could be done even with multiple Esps since most of its resources are in Oblivion.esm. Silgrad Tower or any other lagre scale mod has its resources in its own Data Files.

I dont need to send anything to you and I am not here to argue with you, This is a known problem encountered by several modders.

ADCK · 06-18-2006, 03:00 PM,

Yeah, but I didn't just tag them, I also added 500 cells.

This was done before the patch for Oblivion though, maybe they added something sinister to prevent us from making large mods?

Cleitanious · 06-18-2006, 03:04 PM,

I dont know if it was something intentional, but they disabled Merge TO Master intentionally and still claim this is the same tool they used, which cannot be true since it cannot Merge to master and Oblivion.esm is a master.

The Beth team could have worked on several smaller 20mb< Esp and merged them all together at the end of the day. That would be fine and make sense if they didnt disable the Merge to Master option.

The third party tool "Tes4PlugIn.jar" can do this, but only with smaller files, try to open Oblivion.esm or something of similar size with this tool to merge and you will be greeted with its filesize limitation which Scripter Ron ((Its author)) is aware of.

ADCK · 06-18-2006, 03:11 PM,

They didn't disable merge to master (was there a merge to master option?), they removed combine selected plugins.

Also, try opening DLC Mehrunes Razor with the CS, you're greeted with a nice little message saying your using an old version of the CS...

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index...pic=478074

That thread on the ES Forums adds a bit to the discussion...

Cleitanious · 06-18-2006, 03:50 PM,

Yes they did Disable merge to Master.... The option is still in the .ini file but the code was stripped out of the CS. It was present and active in Morrowind's CS and is what was used to make Oblivion.esm.

Yes they removed the Merge Active Plug-ins as well, but that is something different.

I am also aware that Mehrunes Razor cannot be opened with our CS, thats fine by me though. Im assuming they will release an updated CS soon, which will include the new functions used by Mehrunes Razor

Razorwing · 06-18-2006, 04:31 PM,

My mention of the theoretical possibility of there being other causes to the big esp crash was before I learnt of others beside Cleitanious confirm it happens. Since then I learnt of Jaga Telsin of the Split Infinity mod experiencing it too. Ergo, the crash problem is not an isolated problem and Jaga also explains why it happens in this quote:

Quote:Originally posted by Jaga Telesin -here
It's not related to the size of the ESP, it's related to the overall number of data records within. i.e. - if you only had an ESP that added Weapons (no enchantments), you could go exactly up to X number (somewhere around 48k I think) just fine, but above that and it will crash when you try to open it.

(So, it's not tied exactly to 20 megabytes, but to too many records of the same type)

Others, like ScripterRon I believe, have also confirmed that the CS has evidence left in it that at one point it had a merge-to-master function. This is the way Reich Parkeep is modded, by merging submitted plugins to a master file, and is probably how Bethesda worked as well. What we can't do at the moment is work directly in an esm, which is what Bethesda must have had to been able to do in my opinion.

Bottom line is, we shouldn't have to put up with this kind of mistreatment from Bethesda. We shouldn't have to rely on the albeit brilliant programmers in the community to find workarounds to Bethesda's malicious hacks of the CS. We should expect to get what we were promised - the same exact CS they used to create Oblivion. Not one that's been hacked and watered down in an attempt to forcibly cripple any fan-made mods that threaten the economics of the 'official mods' they defecate.

Cleitanious · 06-18-2006, 04:34 PM,

So Silgrad Tower has no functioning work-around yet?

Razorwing · 06-18-2006, 04:41 PM,

Quote:Originally posted by Cleitanious
So Silgrad Tower has no functioning work-around yet?

Well, taking me as an example, one idea is that I stop working on the esp once I hit the limit and then it can only be affected by merging new plugins to it. I don't know if that's something that will work in reality, but it could theoretically work.

If I don't hit the limit then perhaps it would be solved when the town is merged to the landmass mod? Again, that's just speculation.

Cleitanious · 06-18-2006, 04:44 PM,

Well I have already maxed out the first plug in, which I made into an ESM, and then I maxed out an ESP working off of the ESM, But now I am stuck.

Since new regions were introduced in ESP1, Adding things to that region wont be possible in ESP2, since ESPs cannot add things to eachother.

It wouldnt work to make ESP1 into ESM2, because ESMs cannot change other ESMs.

Razorwing · 06-18-2006, 04:52 PM,

Quote:Originally posted by Cleitanious
Well I have already maxed out the first plug in, which I made into an ESM, and then I maxed out an ESP working off of the ESM, But now I am stuck.

Since new regions were introduced in ESP1, Adding things to that region wont be possible in ESP2, since ESPs cannot add things to eachother.

It wouldn't work to make ESP1 into ESM2, because ESMs cannot change other ESMs.

And I take it that the jist of the problem is that TES4 P U can't merge-to-master really large esp's?