Molag Mar and the Buyoant Armigers

[batman]

alright kukluza, get done writing your post already, we need to clear up the confusion :yes:

[KuKulzA]

things always change guys... this mod team must adapt... if there is a better idea, we must go for it....
so Ebony Knight, read what has been posted, and keep it in mind when suggesting new ways to do things...
_____________________________________________________

During the Great House War.... (however we will structure it)....
the mobilized Indoril-Dres army will sail up the Thir River and to the eastern part of the Ascadian Isles, east of Vivec City. The Dres will claim the Daedric ruins of Ald Sotha and Bal Fell, Ald Sotha no longer inhabited bu surrounded by fertile land, and Bal Fell home to scamps, Mages Guild, and Telvanni. The Indoril will hit that area, then march to Molag Mar where they expect to be greeted as heroes. From there, they will claim two Velothi-holds of Odirniran and Mawia. They will occupy Molag Mar and begin building Indoril barracks and armories just outside to facilitate their camp. The Dres, who will bring along scavengers, prositutes, tradesmen, farmers, and the like, following the larg army seeking a better life on Vvardenfell, will help settled Ald Sotha and Bal Fell, making them Dres holds....
although there is no official occupation plan.... the Dres and the Indoril army had taken the liberty of establishing holdings on Vvardenfell... disputable claims, but hey, they conquered it...
--------------------which leads me to Molag Mar---------------------
The Indoril will then convince the Buoyant Armigers and Ordinators at Molag Mar to help the Indoril army assault Telasero... they will succeed as the outnumbered 6th House is forced to fall back into the Molag Amur. The Indoril have just won themselves the fortress of Telasero, Indoril will now use it as a base, with their main army camped outside of Molag Mar.
------------a new idea for the main quest structure--------------
timeline of events:
PC arrives on Vvardenfell
intro with Vivec
does stuff and other stuff
gets high enough for the great House war.... but the quest giver will say: "tensions are high, I have no quests for you now"
*Helseth conspiracy mini-mainquest*
returning to quest-giver will direct you to the side's war chamber, war leaders of the sides will be there
---as in if you are Hlaalu, the Nord leader, Legion commander, and Hlaalu highest general will be in a room with maps
so you will recieve special War quests from the war leaders or the Lord High Councilor of the Great Houses... or maybe the factions leaders, but they are likely to be the War Leaders too...
Great House War quests
---result: Telvanni domination, Redoran Domination, Hlaalu Domination; everyone's territory ends up the same, but the winning side has guards in others' cities, which means in every major town there will be guards of the winning side.... note, only the major ones, cause everyone's resources are spread thin and everyone tired from war
*Atronach oracle mini-mainquest*
a few weeks passes
*Temple vs. 6th House main quest*
---result: Temple has increased authority with more "good Daedra" worship, ancestor worship, and Tribunal as super-saints....
OR
---6th House will rule wilderness of Vvardenfell, no where except heavily guarded populations will you be safe... unless you are a part of 6th House

ASSUMING....
that in effect, the Great House Wars will not be a real "mainquest" but faction quests that if you piece it all together and listen to dialogue, you will realize you are in a war... and if you step into the battlefield

---------------------which leads me to Armigers----------------------

during the Temple vs. 6th House... you have two choices...
1. Temple 2. Sixth House
so... as Temple...
Vivec will give you 3 choices..... to fight by his side as a:
Buoyant Armiger
Ordinator
Temple Crusader

as a Buoyant Armiger you will enter a 5 step Faction
ranks: Trialed One, War Poet, Armiger Officer, Marshal, Grand Marshal
or something like that, not too long so that:
1. we don't have too much work
2. they will be super tough quests
3. simpler that way, less time spent on climbing the ranks
as Ordinators you will fight in the same battles but have different tools at your disposal....
as Crusader, you are an independent warrior, you will fight alongside with Armigers, Ordinators, and other cursaders....

so being a Temple dude requires you be a Temple worshipper.... nothing big... Ordinators are a joinable faction already...
but Armigers will be a special thing that you CAN be in the main quest...
IF you are not an Ordinator and IF you chose the Temple... as a bonus for those who waited to see if they could be Armigers
(AND those who like hotshot fighter pilots rather than navy seals, Vrenir! )

---------------------which leads me to 6th House----------------------
maybe we should make this only accessible till AFTER the Great House War and once the Temple vs. Dagoth quest begins...
i mean, it does get rid of a lot of problems, and is a bonus fo rthose who would lik eto be Dagoth....

one problem, it will be painful for a player, having become a ___ Councilor, or the Warchief of the betmer, or the Grand Inquisitor, to say....
"I wanna be Dagoth.... but wait, I have to give up almost all my factions?"
that's what is tough.... understandably, only Dunmer can be 6th House... but there are plenty of factions that would hate you for being Dagoth...


just a thought and a big point against it...

__________________________________________________________




and now... I do have a thought for the end of the Great House War which will have to do with this:
one side is winning...
Vivec needs to stop furthur bloodshed, it is his duty, as watcher of Vvardenfell, to protect its common people
_____ Alliance is winning but unable to uproot the last of resistance in whereever
(Hlaalu mkes trenches near Nothryon hold inthe Ascadian Isles, preventing a n Indoril-Dres army from getting Balmora)
(Daedric Cultists, Telvanni, Ashlanders, and Betmer dig fox-holes and pits around Valenvaryon and there is a stalemate-siege)
(Redoran, Dres, and Indoril make trenches jus south fo the pioneering town near Andasreth preventing a Hlaalu army from overruning and taking the Gash)

and then... as the war neared a bloody year.... with one side knocked out... and the other two stubbornly fighting a siege/trench warfare stalemate....
it was a holiday.... Vivec's birthday...

so Vivec would ride his giant nix-hound and travel with a special priestly retinue and go all over Vvardenfell ....there would be total cease-fire, and all the soldiers would realize that although they hated each other, they were all men an women with their own families and kinsmen and their own lives that were terribly interrupted by a war of obscure origin and ancient animosity, and for that moment they would party and celebrate Vivec's burthday with one another and the birthday celebrated throughout Vvardenfell.... and Vivec would shout to have "peace, let the fighting stop brothers... we are all children of Vvardenfell, we should not mar her face" (blablabla)...
and then the day after, Vivec would meet with leaders himself in a second Grand Council (after the 1st in the Helseth quest) and oversee the peace-agreements making sure the houses kept their lands and certain rights obeyed...

this is a miraculous end to the war, bringing an increase of faithful temple worshippers and more trust in the Temple

I was inspired to this from:
WWI Christmas "truce"
Vivec's Birthday*: 1, 2
*open both, title on 1st link, picture on second, it is pic53

[batman]

i'll support this chain of event sthe whole way, however i think the interdependency of things is going to be WAY to hard to pull off. To many things depend on other things, which depend on other things, I think that we need to come up with a simpler way of organizing it.

As of now, the factions are sort of involved with the main quest, sort of not, i think we need more separation and more of a formulaic method. This isn't military history kukluza, i know you'd love to create a huge campaign with tons of varibles, sublties and nuances but that (like TR before us) may be our downfall.

as i said, i'll support whatever we deicde to the end... but i'm definetly going to point out where i think we're deciding wrong, and in my opinion we need to simplify, simplify, simplify.

[Ebonyknight]

NIce , but will the Buyoant Armigers gain anything i think they maybe should have a little increase in their stronghold and stil should have a lord of Molag mar which allows the indoril and dres to setup seeing that his town can prosper and maybe he can reside in the Buyoant armiger stronghold but make it bigger with a training area blacksmith vault and lords chamber and threw a series of ur quest become head of buyoant armiger threw a duel? Please

[batman]

well i see not everyone shares my reservations

[Ebonyknight]

Also reading threw that will there be alternate endings, Temple wins alls good and Sixth House wins they have V? and now settled old strongholds and make new towns?




"Could we also make Buyoant Armigers the Guards for Molag mar?"

[KuKulzA]

(apparently batman was most impressed with ideas on Mainquest)
(apparently EbonyKnight was most impressed with ideas on Armigers and Molag Mar!)

:lol:



anyhow, I know it is all way too inderdependent and so epic... but I want the atmosphere to feel like it...
what I think we need to be able to get rid of is the inter-dependency...

the big question is...

WHEN should the Great House War begin?

that is the mother of it all... if we can set that straight, the other stuff is simple...
how... well that is the Helseth conspiracy mini-mainquest
why... duh, everyone hating everyone
where... Vvardenfell...
etc.etc.etc.

Originally posted by batman
i'll support this chain of event sthe whole way, however I think the interdependency of things is going to be WAY to hard to pull off. To many things depend on other things, which depend on other things, I think that we need to come up with a simpler way of organizing it.

I like how you are both loyal and realistic at the same time :goodjob:
it is way too complex... it needs revision...

Originally posted by batman
As of now, the factions are sort of involved with the main quest, sort of not, I think we need more separation and more of a formulaic method. This isn't military history kukluza, I know you'd love to create a huge campaign with tons of varibles, sublties and nuances but that (like TR before us) may be our downfall.

true, that may be... TOO real... and TOO real... its too hard
but, we cannot depend on any factions... that is because what if a person doesn't want to join any factions but wants to do the main quest?
granted some factions are main0quest joinable, but some people don't want to join a faction just to start the MQ

Originally posted by batman
as I said, i'll support whatever we deicde to the end... but i'm definetly going to point out where I think we're deciding wrong, and in my opinion we need to simplify, simplify, simplify.

I agree, but like you have said... think big, expect little...
but pull off as much as you can as well as you can :yes:

[batman]

you're right, deciding when the war begins is the crucial point, and also the hardest point, simply because you can join the great houses...

my suggestion would be to make joining a faction nessacary to complete the main quest, you can't be involved in a great house war (MQ or not) without being involved with a great house...

how about Vivec explicity tells you that its a good idea to ally yourself with one of the great houses, due to his sensing of the rising tensions?

[KuKulzA]

Originally posted by batman
you're right, deciding when the war begins is the crucial point, and also the hardest point, simply because you can join the great houses...

my suggestion would be to make joining a faction nessacary to complete the main quest, you can't be involved in a great house war (MQ or not) without being involved with a great house...

how about Vivec explicity tells you that its a good idea to ally yourself with one of the great houses, due to his sensing of the rising tensions?

....good idea......
infact, I think we need to elaborate on Vivec's Invitation....
like maybe he can make referrals...

something similar to:
"If you are a merchant you may be interested in Great House Hlaalu. They have needs for the stealthy, the wealthy, and calculating... they are good friends of the Imperial authorities and it is rumored that they are on friendly terms with the Nords invading Sheogorad"

see, there is a referral to Hlaalu, but also Nords and Imperials...

[Ebonyknight]

Molag mar, it has dres indoril buyoant armigers and dres it could be like an Hq almost lol. Just a thought we could build another canton connected to the original one the buyoant armigers would move into the new one making a really nice stronghold showing their power and the empty canton would become indoril and dres shops,barracks and whatever else they can conjure up.