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Axen · 08-27-2006, 02:17 AM,

Quote:Originally posted by Zarf
I'm not sure what it's supposed to be. I found it in the models folder.

Desktop of the tower:

Download - 1600x1200

Think you could smoothen out that point? And get rid of the star. It was a rather bad experiment by Razorwing a long time ago.

Zarf · 08-27-2006, 05:44 AM,

Rather bad? I think it was pulled off brilliantly, except for the mapping in a couple places. Let's see you do something of that calliber.

EDIT: I thought you were talking about the crab shell building. The star I don't like so much, but I would rather improve it than get rid of it. RW, you should consider drawing the star out on paper, sending me the scan, and I'll have a go at making one. Smile

TheImperialDragon · 08-27-2006, 05:49 AM,

Axen, I'm still waiting to see something of yours retextured and put into the game, feel free to do a model for the Redoran Barracks interior too if your expectations are so high, show us how you want it then. Wink

jonrd463 · 08-27-2006, 07:16 AM,

Quote:Originally posted by TheImperialDragon
Axen, I'm still waiting to see something of yours retextured and put into the game, feel free to do a model for the Redoran Barracks interior too if your expectations are so high, show us how you want it then.

And I'm still waiting for Roger Ebert to come out with a movie. Just because the delivery of the opinion might be brash doesn't mean it isn't valid. Personally, I don't really like the star either, but that doesn't mean I think Razorwing is a talentless hack.

-Jon

Zarf · 08-27-2006, 07:28 AM,

The problem here is that every post of Axen's is either tactless or outright mean. Ebert is at least polite. This "rather bad" comment is particularly mild.

Now then. I agree the star doesn't look great, but I'm not all for scrapping it completely. It just needs to be reworked. Furthermore, the point is a low-poly solve for a part of the tower that nobody is going to see. You don't notice it ingame, especially not from the ground.

Razorwing · 08-27-2006, 12:12 PM,

Great of you to touch up those buildings Zarf! They're looking much, much better now :goodjob:

The collision meshes for both of them are of the old, unoptimized type. I hadn't got to updating them yet. I can add them to your max scenes after you're finished, if you'd like, or you're welcome to make them if you'd prefer that.

I added the star to Hoss' building back in September -05, when I'd been modelling for about four months. Naturally I didn't have the competence back then that I do today, and I'm not going to say I worked excessively on that detail either. It was some kind of spline I distorted and turned 3d. I liked it back then, because it looked to me to resemble fire, which I thought was fitting for a warrior people like the Redorans. I don't like it as much nowadays, so I'm ok with it being removed.

What I didn't realize when I got permission from Asylum for us to use his building was that it was *cough* ... let's say 'heavily' based on Skar. His intentions were perfectly honest, it was a Morrowind nif used in a Morrowind mod. When I realized just how much it was based on Skar I decided to remodel the roof completely, and coupled with a other changes I think the final Council Club is substantially different from Bethesda's that it's free of copyright issues. So, that's the backstory to it.

It doesn't really matter if Axen's opinions are valid one by one, they're depressing just the same. Well-phrased critizism can sway a person to take a second look at it, and elaborating on one's views can both sway a person to see it the way you see it as well as signalling that you care enough about it to write a decent post. Too much and constant critisizm on the other hand is counter-productive. It bums people out and might cause them to leave, because when there isn't a paycheck coming every month, the only leg we have to stand on is that we're having fun. If that leg is pulled away, for instance by constant, unwanted critisizm, people want to leave. It's in that light that, in my opinion, Axen's presence on the Visual Dev board does more harm than good.

Zarf · 08-27-2006, 04:04 PM,

My thoughts exactly.

Now, before this conversation tunrs too sour, I need to get the names of the people that worked on our various Redoran buildings. I know Asylum worked on the council club now, and I know that Hoss worked on the tower, but I'm not sure of the tavern. Was that Caligula's work?

Also, the roof of the council club is two seperate peices as it stands. After church today, I'm going to see if I can make it all one peice and still keep it looking the same. No guarentees, though. If it works, it will simplify the vertice shading process considerably, though I am not too confidant that I can keep the model as similar to the original as I want.

Looking at your old screenshots, I noticed the tower has an interior visible from the top. Mine doesn't. I figured there was supposed to be a door there. Where can I find this interior? If I can merge all the peices together and weld all the vertices, that will really help with the polycount, and of course it will make the renders look better. Big Grin

Oh yeah, I start school tomorrow. Expect me to work even slower. Big Grin

Razorwing · 08-27-2006, 04:42 PM,

Asylum, and me I guess, created the Council Club. Hoss created the Guardtower. I created the Crab (RedoranBuilding20uniExt). Caligula created everything else, from RedoranBuilding01ext to RedoranBuilding07ext.

Welding the Council Club pieces should work. Sometimes I keep them separate because of vertex shading issues, but since you're remaking the vertex shading, welding it shouldn't cause any problems.

Oh yeah, I see what you mean about the Guardtower. No, the secret Tongue

is that the model uses the technique of doublesided textures. The wall around the lookout level is a plane, and by using the doublesided texture technique the texture is mirrored on the back. It's a great way of saving on the facecount with no noticeable difference to the player. The Civ4 exporter supported it, which is how the guardtower started out its life in our mod. The Niftools exporter did not, but for some reason I didn't remedy the problem on that model. Now however the newer versions of the Niftools exporter does support doublesided textures, so if you export it again it should work. If it helps, I've attached the max scene and the updated nif. Smile

Axen · 08-27-2006, 04:45 PM,

Quote:Originally posted by Razorwing
It doesn't really matter if Axen's opinions are valid one by one, they're depressing just the same. Well-phrased critizism can sway a person to take a second look at it, and elaborating on one's views can both sway a person to see it the way you see it as well as signalling that you care enough about it to write a decent post. Too much and constant critisizm on the other hand is counter-productive. It bums people out and might cause them to leave, because when there isn't a paycheck coming every month, the only leg we have to stand on is that we're having fun. If that leg is pulled away, for instance by constant, unwanted critisizm, people want to leave. It's in that light that, in my opinion, Axen's presence on the Visual Dev board does more harm than good.

I just get right to the point. I find it silly to elongate things (as a lawyer throws all sorts of fancy language in his papers). And I also don't like restating. Believe it or not, I am human, not just a robot whose primary and only goal is to shout out every flaw.

Zarf · 08-27-2006, 10:27 PM,

...not just a robot whose primary and only goal is to shout out every flaw.

We know you aren't Douglas Adams's comic relief. You might think you are cutting to what matters, but it comes off as empty complaining. It gets very frustrating to read what you have to say sometimes.