Tree Development

[Koniption]

Nice tree models, and bamboo model! Bamboo's leaves sway in wind?

So that's why you didn't comment on my bamboo... *cough*

Koniption

[morcroft]

Er, yes - sorry about that! Your bamboos are very nice: they need to be used where they'll be closely inspected. Being speedtrees mine will be better as filler.
And yes, both the leaves and the stems sway in the wind.
They're actually branches on a very short trunk that's buried underground. Does sting a bit for polies - 2646 at near LOD, dropping to 1140 for middle distance before they go to billboard. According to SpeedtreeCAD, at any rate. I didn't notice any problem with having them in the scene, though: I think Speedtrees render faster anyway.

[Koniption]

Originally posted by morcroft
Er, yes - sorry about that! Your bamboos are very nice: they need to be used where they'll be closely inspected. Being speedtrees mine will be better as filler.
And yes, both the leaves and the stems sway in the wind.
They're actually branches on a very short trunk that's buried underground. Does sting a bit for polies - 2646 at near LOD, dropping to 1140 for middle distance before they go to billboard. According to SpeedtreeCAD, at any rate. I didn't notice any problem with having them in the scene, though: I think Speedtrees render faster anyway.

No need to apologize! I'm not mad or anything like that. Your bamb'oozles are very nice to have! And you're right on about the situations in which to use both our varieties.

KP

EDIT: I just realized that "bamboozle" is indeed an actual word...and it's definition makes my post awkward..... :eek:

Bamboozle def.:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/bamboozle

EDIT#2: I left the word bamboozle in my original post, because I think the whole literary situation is funny, and some people can get their sh*tz & giggles from it.

[Ibsen's Ghost]

@ Koniption - I think it's a word more commonly used in the UK. We're weird like that, you see. =)

@ morcroft - I 'kin' love 'em!

TreeShots10 shows what I think will be my favourite tree of the lot (the one on the left) - a cypress texture with a big base and plenty of hanging moss. Sweet! :bananarock:

I've not had much to play around with in terms of shrubs until now but I'm certainly looking forward to using those bamboo items especially. KP, being crap at interpreting polies for myself, do morcroft's estimations sound okay to you? It sounds fine to me but I'm no modeller!

The Japanese stuff is, slightly as I feared, under threat of appearing 'cartoony' but I think they should work nicely tbh. We need some bushy stuff in there as we're lacking original, native varieties.

6 models? That's going to have me itching to get started on the Talu Swamps! I shall check how everything looks once I've got my height map sorted then I'll see if Koniption's bamboo items fit in this region. If not, they'll be used elsewhere because I like them too much to waste them even if they don't work out as suggested...I'll need to test out the water levels as a first priority though...so that I can get the underwater grass showing through the shallow water. That may get a little tricky...

Anyway, yes! Gimme! :yes:

[morcroft]

OK - I'll PM you a link when I've got the files uploaded somewhere.

I think the Tupelo will grow on you (ho ho ho) especially if you surround each one closely with knees and use just it and the Cypress (my swampy form in the wet; the vanilla forest one on the dry margins). It's pretty mossy too, but slightly brighter green and a different texture to the cypresses. I think the two play off each other well.

The other two trees are intended for jungle - wherever you think best, but maybe naga-cradle to replace some jungletree3s.

The fatsia japonica is a bit cartoony because the leaves are so big - ironic, really: they're actual photographs from my garden. See what you think when you see it in-game. I think it's jungly too, but you might use it in the swamp, I suppose.

Oh, and I knew bamboozle, too. Brits - what can I say.

[Koniption]

Originally posted by Ibsen's Ghost
[...]
I've not had much to play around with in terms of shrubs until now but I'm certainly looking forward to using those bamboo items especially. KP, being crap at interpreting polies for myself, do morcroft's estimations sound okay to you? It sounds fine to me but I'm no modeller!
[...]

Because morcroft's bamboos are a speetree item, I can't say for sure about the polies. I've never worked with speedtrees, and they are probably treated differently in the game, like morcroft mentioned. They might end up being ok. You'll just have to test them out in your game and see how they affect performance.

Sorry that I can't offer a solid answer.

Koniption

[morcroft]

Bear in mind, too, that before I optimised it jungletree3 was 17656 tris at high LOD and 6890 even at low! Even after I worked on it its still 12696 at high LOD and 5310 at low. It's all those detailed wiggly branches....

[Ibsen's Ghost]

Ah, well that may need checking but we seem to be running things okay as they are. Even so, it would sure help us if we can get some of those old trees checked out later on as part of an optimisation blast before the beta release.

[Koniption]

Originally posted by morcroft
Bear in mind, too, that before I optimised it jungletree3 was 17656 tris at high LOD and 6890 even at low! Even after I worked on it its still 12696 at high LOD and 5310 at low. It's all those detailed wiggly branches....

Although I don't work with speedtree, that sounds like a lot of polies...

12696 tris can easily be one building exterior, if we were speaking about non-speedtree modeling.

Morcroft, are you able to import one of vanilla Oblivion speedtrees into speedtree program, and see somewhere in that program how many triangles a vanilla tree is?

That should give you a good comparison for the triangle limit Beth stuck to. Also, the different vanilla trees will almost undoubtedly have different triangle counts, so I'd try to find the most triangle intensive vanilla tree there is.

Koniption

[morcroft]

@Ibsen: Yes - I will check the other trees: you can regard it as my responsibility and I hereby give you permission to nag.
Although: fixing them can be almost as much work as creating them anew. There's one or two in there I might want to make cleaner replacements for, the Jungletrees in particular.

@Koniption -
Depends on the seed value used, but just pulling some of my original starting files in:

Vanilla trees:
snowgum 4920 at hi LOD / 1348 at low;
swamp cypress 4968 / 1802
deodar 5074 / 668

My trees:
BmMdTreeSwampCypressWetland 7392 / 3266
BmMdTreeTupeloWetland 7234 / 3256
(both needed the extra because they're strung out along a branch network)

BmMdTreeTropical01 2438 / 1358
BmMdTreeTropical02 2802 / 1302
(simpler trees generally)

BmMdTreeFatsia 1292 / 456
BmMdTreeBamboo 2646 / 1140

Make of all that what you will.

I'm guessing the billboards are two triangles each, and if users have performance problem they've probably already cut their tree fade distance.