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Razorwing · 06-17-2006, 11:09 PM,

I've just heard a report from a person who had learnt that the esp format is limited to 20 megabyte large files. If you try to load an esp file larger file than that, reportedly, the Construction Set crashes. Sad

Apparantly this was discovered while merging lots and lots of mods together.

- Seeing as you can't work with esm files in the Construction Set, what do you guys think this will mean for us?
- Could it be that the person who experienced the crash experienced it for other reasons than a CS limitation -- such as having too little RAM, for example?
- If it really is a limitation of the CS, what's your best suggestion for revising our development plans to work around the limitation?
- Or should we continue as we are, and hope that Bethesda updates the Construction Set?

Axen · 06-17-2006, 11:12 PM,

Well, the reason why Bethesda made the CS a download is supposedly so they could update it easier.

Caligula Superfly · 06-17-2006, 11:28 PM,

Well, lets hope so. I think we can keep working as is for a little while, but we may need to cut things up by area if this is true and not fixed. Can you separate .esps by "layer" so to speak? As in all landscape on one, objects on another, quests and NPCs on a third, ect.

Siegfried · 06-18-2006, 01:37 AM,

Quote:Originally posted by Axen
Well, the reason why Bethesda made the CS a download is supposedly so they could update it easier.

If we can't find a work around to the 20meg limitation, we could always get together a bunch of people from large mod projects and some flamers from the Official Forums, and then riot until Beth fixes it :tongue:

Razorwing · 06-18-2006, 02:12 AM,

Axen: With 'supposedly' being the operative word. Tongue

I doubt the Devs had these problems... either they were able to mod directly in an esm, or they used something like supercomputers with 10 gigs of RAM to overcome the esp-crash-bug.

Caligula Superfly: Unfortunately I don't think it can. Sad

It would tie in with the isolationist problem. An esp can't be dependant on another esp if both are to work simultaneously, and an esm can't really be dependant on another esm and work properly. That's why a Reich Parkeep'er has to play with the esp and mod with the esm, because the esp can affect Oblivion.esm and still work, while the esm can't but on the other hand can be modded from and merged to.

Perhaps a theoretical solution could be to have a master esm at the top, which only includes 100% finished work. Like the heightmap and generated nature for our landmass for instance, that's something take up a lot of data. Because in theory I think it should be possible to merge to an esm that's larger than 20mb, so the only way to affect that master esm would be to create plugins for it. Hmm... on the other hand, because of the isolationist effect, there's no doubling effect in this game, so... in theory you should be able to change most things with a plugin.

Even if that works it'd be a pretty shoddy way of working though. Sad

Siegfried: That could work.

On ESF throughout Oblivion's development there were one grouping that liked to complain, and another grouping who constantly made comments along the lines of "the game isn't done yet", "that's an early version", "they'll fix it before release", etc. At least to me it was obvious that the news they leaked on their site wasn't always just to satiate the forum-goers; it was a marketing strategy as well. They wanted to see what their future customers' reactions were. If a hundred people say they don't like something you can bet they'll have a meeting about it since every one of those hundred account for the opinion of a thousand potential customers.

There's no economic leverage of that scale anymore, but I bet they care about Oblivion's shelf life, and presumptious as it may be I think we and other groups like us play some part in Oblivion's current and future sales. If we can convince them it's in their economic interest to fix the problem in one way or the other, I think there's a reasonable chance of success.

Edit: Here's the thread. I sure hope it pans out. Pleeease add your five cents to it so it's known that there are many concerned modders interested in seeing the matter resolved. Smile

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index...pic=479846

X23 · 06-18-2006, 02:17 AM,

I think we should bother Betheda. Lately they've been... Not as good as usual.
Its barely like the same people that made DF or Morrowind (Well no one except Todd Howard is left from Daggerfall)

I think alot of other major mod teams would support a bigger esp filesize limit.

Razorwing · 06-18-2006, 02:24 AM,

Quote:Originally posted by X23
I think we should bother Betheda. Lately they've been... Not as good as usual.
Its barely like the same people that made DF or Morrowind (Well no one except Todd Howard is left from Daggerfall)

I think a lot of other major mod teams would support a bigger esp filesize limit.

I thought Ken Rolston was there since the beginning?

Axen · 06-18-2006, 02:28 AM,

Quote:Originally posted by Razorwing
I thought Ken Rolston was there since the beginning?

He's retired. And he didn't have as big a role in TES4's design development as he had in TES3's, since TES4 had a huge design team. A design team that should be revised.

Razorwing · 06-18-2006, 02:45 AM,

Quote:Originally posted by Axen

Quote:Originally posted by Razorwing
I thought Ken Rolston was there since the beginning?
He's retired. And he didn't have as big a role in TES4's design development as he had in TES3's, since TES4 had a huge design team. A design team that should be revised.

Hmm, I thought he was the capo di tutti cap over there, and oversaw the whole thing and had final say? Because of his seniority I got the impression he got to focus on the 'big picture' and take big design decisions and such.

If I'd been in charge I would have kept the game designers, rehired some lore monkeys, and fired the modellers and texture artists. I never liked the way Oblivion looks, but I think it's a pretty entertaining game to play. It should have had more soul and lore to it though.

X23 · 06-18-2006, 02:57 AM,

I definitly agree about the lore. The story of Morrowind and the backround was so deep compared to the Oblivion, and even the others from what I heard. The main Quest story was good too.

There was an interview about next generation games, and it was with Todd Howard, and I didn't get watch it but I heard he went on for almost the whole thing on how pretty the graphics and trees were. Those aren't things that TES ( And now fallout since they have the liscense) Are about.