02-08-2006, 03:49 AM
nice 
02-08-2006, 08:56 PM
alright, so is my 3 step Mquest a good idea?
the first 2 are almost like regular quests but more epic and little extended...
the last is a friggin great house war centered in Vvardenfell...
so far I have picked up these points of advice:
- more player involvement in Helseth quest
- improve the connection with agents and how they are manipulating Vvardenfell affairs
- create multiples endings
now, on the topic of multiple endings...
The three alliances are easy enough to decide the outcome... the loser will have his settlements blockaded and troops stationed there...
but the tricky ones are 6th House and Tribunal Temple... I think that these 2 SHOULD have a big part in this
the Temple wants to make a good name for itself before it starts to quietly decline... Vivec wants to set the Dunmer on the right road... he wants to see that the Dunmer don't get tricked by the Daedra, don't go all out fanatic with ancestor cults, and don't give up their religious identity
the Sixth House would like to take advantage of the war to strike a fatal blow to the Temple (Ordinators and Buoyant Armigers are the best defense as they are most experienced vs. 6th House). They also want to drive the Redoran, Telvanni, and Hlaalu from Vvardenfell. They hope to rise in a district-wide revolt... raiding towns, killing travelers, overrunning Temple warriors... until finally the only real holds left against them are Ebonheart and Vivec... the rest will be conquered since the three aliances have severly weakened themselves in trying eliminate one another
the first 2 are almost like regular quests but more epic and little extended...
the last is a friggin great house war centered in Vvardenfell...
so far I have picked up these points of advice:
- more player involvement in Helseth quest
- improve the connection with agents and how they are manipulating Vvardenfell affairs
- create multiples endings
now, on the topic of multiple endings...
The three alliances are easy enough to decide the outcome... the loser will have his settlements blockaded and troops stationed there...
but the tricky ones are 6th House and Tribunal Temple... I think that these 2 SHOULD have a big part in this
the Temple wants to make a good name for itself before it starts to quietly decline... Vivec wants to set the Dunmer on the right road... he wants to see that the Dunmer don't get tricked by the Daedra, don't go all out fanatic with ancestor cults, and don't give up their religious identity
the Sixth House would like to take advantage of the war to strike a fatal blow to the Temple (Ordinators and Buoyant Armigers are the best defense as they are most experienced vs. 6th House). They also want to drive the Redoran, Telvanni, and Hlaalu from Vvardenfell. They hope to rise in a district-wide revolt... raiding towns, killing travelers, overrunning Temple warriors... until finally the only real holds left against them are Ebonheart and Vivec... the rest will be conquered since the three aliances have severly weakened themselves in trying eliminate one another
02-09-2006, 03:47 AM
Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzAcome on guys, lets discuss the different outcomes... this is CRUCIAL
alright, so is my 3 step Mquest a good idea?
the first 2 are almost like regular quests but more epic and little extended...
the last is a friggin great house war centered in Vvardenfell...
so far I have picked up these points of advice:
- more player involvement in Helseth quest
- improve the connection with agents and how they are manipulating Vvardenfell affairs
- create multiples endings
now, on the topic of multiple endings...
The three alliances are easy enough to decide the outcome... the loser will have his settlements blockaded and troops stationed there...
but the tricky ones are 6th House and Tribunal Temple... I think that these 2 SHOULD have a big part in this
the Temple wants to make a good name for itself before it starts to quietly decline... Vivec wants to set the Dunmer on the right road... he wants to see that the Dunmer don't get tricked by the Daedra, don't go all out fanatic with ancestor cults, and don't give up their religious identity
the Sixth House would like to take advantage of the war to strike a fatal blow to the Temple (Ordinators and Buoyant Armigers are the best defense as they are most experienced vs. 6th House). They also want to drive the Redoran, Telvanni, and Hlaalu from Vvardenfell. They hope to rise in a district-wide revolt... raiding towns, killing travelers, overrunning Temple warriors... until finally the only real holds left against them are Ebonheart and Vivec... the rest will be conquered since the three aliances have severly weakened themselves in trying eliminate one another
02-10-2006, 08:58 PM
Quote:the Sixth House would like to take advantage of the war to strike a fatal blow to the Temple (Ordinators and Buoyant Armigers are the best defense as they are most experienced vs. 6th House). They also want to drive the Redoran, Telvanni, and Hlaalu from Vvardenfell. They hope to rise in a district-wide revolt... raiding towns, killing travelers, overrunning Temple warriors... until finally the only real holds left against them are Ebonheart and Vivec... the rest will be conquered since the three aliances have severly weakened themselves in trying eliminate one another
So you'll make 6th House and Temple in costant and balanced war?
02-11-2006, 01:00 AM
If the PC simply follows the House quest lines, it will lead to war and hopefully, the victory of the PC's House. It seems that some of the House victories could have overlapping outcomes, making it easier to script. As somebody mentioned earlier in this thread, either Telvani or Hlallu victories would probably grant the Nords a bit of colony space in the north. If either the Telvani or Redoran win, the Imperials may begin to withdraw again, at least the citizens who feel that the winds of fortune have turned against them.
The Redoran victory would be the most revolutionary, as it would involve basically the eviction of all unorthodox inhabitants of Vvardenfell. I envision Redoran troops stationed in most cities to supervise the relocation of various Outlander and dissident citizens, shopkeepers, etc. Local law officials, especially House officials, would be forced to lay down their arms and turn over their facilities to Redoran leaders. The Temple would also fare well from this outcome, but would probably view it with mixed emotions as Vivec himself would likely have favored another outcome.
If the Telvani win, I would envision the least amount of things changing. They strike me as slow to move. The other powers would be considerably weakened, but Telvani would not station guards around or suddenly enact laws over Vvardenfell. The military of the other powers would simply be lessened and, in accordance with the Telvani treaty, the Betmer would be freed on Vvardenfell, possibly leading to a few mop-up quests where the slavers in the Hlallu territories are confronted. Meanwhile, some of the Betmer guerrillas would refuse to accept the treaty and continue fighting, while others would put down their arms, come out of hiding, and join society, resulting in a slight visual change in the crowds of cities near their old strongholds.
If the Hlallu win, I see them forcing harsh conditions on the Redoran and possibly on the Betmer, who would likely be listed as violent and hunted in one or two mop-up quests. The Hlallu, supported by the Legion, would also likely send economic faciliators to the areas hardest hit in the fighting and to the capitals of the defeated houses in order to help rebuild and solidify Hlallu's position in trade across the entire island. I could see escorting these facilitators as a possible mop-up quest as well.
Given those three outcomes to an open House war, we also need to consider Vivec's position and a surprise act by the Sixth House.
Vivec wants to ensure the status quo with the Houses getting along and the Temple ensuring their devotion to the right causes. I would suggest that, if the PC follows this path, he basically follows in the footsteps of the Nereverine. He doesn't become a horator, but he is an emissary of Vivec, probably a high official of the Temple and maybe even an Ordinator. He then oversees negotiations between the Houses, takes messages and envoys from place to place, and generally stops rouge elements of each party from sparkng the war. Eventually, it could come down to a last minute negotiation after a couple of small skirmishes lead to a massive mobilization of one side, probably either the Redoran or the Hlallu.
The Sixth House is the hard one to figure out, because we don't want this to turn into TESIII part 2, with the main quest ending up as a mop-up the Sixth House after Dagoth Ur's downfall. I would suggest that the Sixth House actually work almost entirely behind the scenes, manipulating certain events, perhaps tricking Houses into being suspicious of one another or even into starting a small skirmish. I would suggest furthermore that the role of the Sixth House in these events remain largely unknown unless the PC makes specific choices that discover it or unless the PC is a member of the Sixth House. For instance, say that the Sixth House attacks a Hlallu farm dressed as Redoran warriors. Hlallu retaliates. As a member of House Hlallu, the PC is sent to confirm the attack. If he discovers evidence that the Redorans are responsible, he is told that a contingent was sent to attack ____ in the Redoran territory. If, however, he finds the piece of evidence that implicates the Sixth House, the PC can show that to the Hlallu and the counter-attack is called off. The variable skirmish itself doesn't even have to be scripted, just reported. An incident like this embedded in each House questline is also what could lead the PC to join Vivec's camp and attempt to show via negotiation that the Houses are best off cooperating. Of course, if the PC is on Vivec's side from the start, he could also be sent on these same sort of investigative quests to gather evidence of Sixth House manipulation.
The Redoran victory would be the most revolutionary, as it would involve basically the eviction of all unorthodox inhabitants of Vvardenfell. I envision Redoran troops stationed in most cities to supervise the relocation of various Outlander and dissident citizens, shopkeepers, etc. Local law officials, especially House officials, would be forced to lay down their arms and turn over their facilities to Redoran leaders. The Temple would also fare well from this outcome, but would probably view it with mixed emotions as Vivec himself would likely have favored another outcome.
If the Telvani win, I would envision the least amount of things changing. They strike me as slow to move. The other powers would be considerably weakened, but Telvani would not station guards around or suddenly enact laws over Vvardenfell. The military of the other powers would simply be lessened and, in accordance with the Telvani treaty, the Betmer would be freed on Vvardenfell, possibly leading to a few mop-up quests where the slavers in the Hlallu territories are confronted. Meanwhile, some of the Betmer guerrillas would refuse to accept the treaty and continue fighting, while others would put down their arms, come out of hiding, and join society, resulting in a slight visual change in the crowds of cities near their old strongholds.
If the Hlallu win, I see them forcing harsh conditions on the Redoran and possibly on the Betmer, who would likely be listed as violent and hunted in one or two mop-up quests. The Hlallu, supported by the Legion, would also likely send economic faciliators to the areas hardest hit in the fighting and to the capitals of the defeated houses in order to help rebuild and solidify Hlallu's position in trade across the entire island. I could see escorting these facilitators as a possible mop-up quest as well.
Given those three outcomes to an open House war, we also need to consider Vivec's position and a surprise act by the Sixth House.
Vivec wants to ensure the status quo with the Houses getting along and the Temple ensuring their devotion to the right causes. I would suggest that, if the PC follows this path, he basically follows in the footsteps of the Nereverine. He doesn't become a horator, but he is an emissary of Vivec, probably a high official of the Temple and maybe even an Ordinator. He then oversees negotiations between the Houses, takes messages and envoys from place to place, and generally stops rouge elements of each party from sparkng the war. Eventually, it could come down to a last minute negotiation after a couple of small skirmishes lead to a massive mobilization of one side, probably either the Redoran or the Hlallu.
The Sixth House is the hard one to figure out, because we don't want this to turn into TESIII part 2, with the main quest ending up as a mop-up the Sixth House after Dagoth Ur's downfall. I would suggest that the Sixth House actually work almost entirely behind the scenes, manipulating certain events, perhaps tricking Houses into being suspicious of one another or even into starting a small skirmish. I would suggest furthermore that the role of the Sixth House in these events remain largely unknown unless the PC makes specific choices that discover it or unless the PC is a member of the Sixth House. For instance, say that the Sixth House attacks a Hlallu farm dressed as Redoran warriors. Hlallu retaliates. As a member of House Hlallu, the PC is sent to confirm the attack. If he discovers evidence that the Redorans are responsible, he is told that a contingent was sent to attack ____ in the Redoran territory. If, however, he finds the piece of evidence that implicates the Sixth House, the PC can show that to the Hlallu and the counter-attack is called off. The variable skirmish itself doesn't even have to be scripted, just reported. An incident like this embedded in each House questline is also what could lead the PC to join Vivec's camp and attempt to show via negotiation that the Houses are best off cooperating. Of course, if the PC is on Vivec's side from the start, he could also be sent on these same sort of investigative quests to gather evidence of Sixth House manipulation.
02-11-2006, 01:19 AM
so...
maybe you could either:
:yes: ...good... but lots of work...
but we should make it VERY hard to find out how the 6th House is manipulating stuff.... yeah, the 6th House will see combat later though... when they clean up survivors...
it is not rare for these uprisings to occur... first Dagoth-Tython's rebellion... then Dagoth Thras of Abernanit... then Dagoth Ur began to gain power... after him...
it could be YOU! :brew:
maybe you could either:
- join 6th House and after starting a war, killing off the survivors
- join up with the Hlaalu-Imperials
- join up with the Telvanni Alliance
- join up with the Triple Alliance
- discover 6th House motives and lead the Temple army
:yes: ...good... but lots of work...
but we should make it VERY hard to find out how the 6th House is manipulating stuff.... yeah, the 6th House will see combat later though... when they clean up survivors...
it is not rare for these uprisings to occur... first Dagoth-Tython's rebellion... then Dagoth Thras of Abernanit... then Dagoth Ur began to gain power... after him...
it could be YOU! :brew:
02-11-2006, 01:21 AM
I've noticed the Daedric Worshippers aren't in on this. Think about it, after being persucuted by the temple for years, they have their chance to fight back. Unlike everyone else, these guys WANT the daedra to win.
02-11-2006, 01:30 AM
I would expect the Deadra worshippers to join with the Telvani Alliance, since they seem so nice and multi-ethnic rather than the Temple-toting Redorans or the rather nominal Hlallu. I also really don't see the Vivec / Temple people doing all that much fighting. They prepare to defend themselves, help defuse conflicts, maybe fight off rogue elements of each House that are trying to escelate the situation, probably raid some Sixth House stuff once incriminating evidence is found, but they're trying to preserve the peace, not blast the other sides to pieces.
02-11-2006, 01:34 AM
I think the Daedric worshippers MIGHT want to join Telvanni...
and Telvanni aren't very anti-Daedra Cult either
...but they don't wann abe killed off by Daedra.....
maybe after Oblivion is driven back, the Daedraic Cults will decide they need earthly alliances to ensure their survival... though they still call on Daedra to aid them...
but how will we make sure of this? can we make the War mquest not occur till after Oblivion?
hmmm....
hrug:
and Telvanni aren't very anti-Daedra Cult either
...but they don't wann abe killed off by Daedra.....
maybe after Oblivion is driven back, the Daedraic Cults will decide they need earthly alliances to ensure their survival... though they still call on Daedra to aid them...
but how will we make sure of this? can we make the War mquest not occur till after Oblivion?
hmmm....
hrug:02-11-2006, 01:50 AM
I would assume that character deaths (Vivec and Nereverine), should they happen, would occur near the beginning of the TESIV main quest, but if they don't, then we would need to start it later so as to work in a stable environment.
What if you can go to Vvardenfell right away, but the main quest is indeed barred until TESIV is completed. I mean, if Oblivion portals are openning across Tamriel, and it should be Tamriel if it's due to the Emperor's death, then there should be a couple in Vvardenfell too. There could be one in the Ashlands somewhere that is giving trouble to the Redoran and Ashlanders. There could also be one somewhere in the south-east, being combatted by the Imperials. You could do all the normal stuff with guilds and misc quests and even joining a House, but until Oblivion is closed, the resources of everyone are needed to fight off the invasion. So, you are forced to return to Cyrodill and finish that main quest, then when it is complete, you recieve the invitation from Vivec and begin the main quest on Vvardenfell.
Also, the Daedric invasions could easily tie in with the House war. Think, if the invasion was caused in some sense by the Imperials, this would highten anti-Imperial, anti-Hlallu sentiment among the locals, especially the Redoran who had to deal with the Ashlands portal. Perhaps the Ashlanders sought a more concrete alliance with the Telvani for protection from the Daedric invasions, which in spite of their worship endangered them. (Again, questions of faith and how to deal with a reality that doesn't seem to fit, but for another faction) The Daedric Cults, because of the invasion, have also grown in strength, leading to an increased effort by the Temple to root them out. (Early Temple / Ordinator quests) However, with the portals closed, the cults have also suddenly suffered a crisis of identity as KuKulzA suggested. They are being persecuted and their gods have disappeared suddenly; they realize that they need help if they are to survive, hence the Telvani, the only group not really harmed by the Daedric invasion and not terribly hostile to the cults. Of course, this could lead to some in-fighting between the cultists and the Ashlanders, but that could be remedied after a couple of quests by making sure that the groups stay seperate within the alliance, you know "right hand not knowing what the left is doing" stuff.
What if you can go to Vvardenfell right away, but the main quest is indeed barred until TESIV is completed. I mean, if Oblivion portals are openning across Tamriel, and it should be Tamriel if it's due to the Emperor's death, then there should be a couple in Vvardenfell too. There could be one in the Ashlands somewhere that is giving trouble to the Redoran and Ashlanders. There could also be one somewhere in the south-east, being combatted by the Imperials. You could do all the normal stuff with guilds and misc quests and even joining a House, but until Oblivion is closed, the resources of everyone are needed to fight off the invasion. So, you are forced to return to Cyrodill and finish that main quest, then when it is complete, you recieve the invitation from Vivec and begin the main quest on Vvardenfell.
Also, the Daedric invasions could easily tie in with the House war. Think, if the invasion was caused in some sense by the Imperials, this would highten anti-Imperial, anti-Hlallu sentiment among the locals, especially the Redoran who had to deal with the Ashlands portal. Perhaps the Ashlanders sought a more concrete alliance with the Telvani for protection from the Daedric invasions, which in spite of their worship endangered them. (Again, questions of faith and how to deal with a reality that doesn't seem to fit, but for another faction) The Daedric Cults, because of the invasion, have also grown in strength, leading to an increased effort by the Temple to root them out. (Early Temple / Ordinator quests) However, with the portals closed, the cults have also suddenly suffered a crisis of identity as KuKulzA suggested. They are being persecuted and their gods have disappeared suddenly; they realize that they need help if they are to survive, hence the Telvani, the only group not really harmed by the Daedric invasion and not terribly hostile to the cults. Of course, this could lead to some in-fighting between the cultists and the Ashlanders, but that could be remedied after a couple of quests by making sure that the groups stay seperate within the alliance, you know "right hand not knowing what the left is doing" stuff.